First of all, there are those among us who scorn this stat. Well, fuck off then. Second, yes, it is exponentially less useful the smaller the sample size. So - just like every other stat, right? With that in mind, here are the Blazers ranked by +/- per minute on this day, 11th November, the year of our Lord two thousand and nine: Code: Top Individual Players Player 1 Team + - +/- Min [COLOR="Red"]+/-/Min[/COLOR] G G. Oden Trail Blazers 318 -275 43 155:35 .276 7 J. Bayless Trail Blazers 63 -57 6 26:39 .225 3 T. Outlaw Trail Blazers 335 -304 31 157:15 .197 7 S. Blake Trail Blazers 395 -360 35 195:07 .179 7 M. Webster Trail Blazers 288 -264 24 147:57 .162 7 B. Roy Trail Blazers 521 -481 40 254:34 .157 7 A. Miller Trail Blazers 412 -386 26 195:40 .132 7 L. Aldridge Trail Blazers 485 -470 15 241:38 .062 7 R. Fernandez Trail Blazers 326 -318 8 151:40 .052 7 J. Przybilla Trail Blazers 267 -264 3 130:36 .022 7 J. Howard Trail Blazers 38 -42 -4 16:58 -.235 2 D. Cunningham Trail Blazers 17 -19 -2 6:17 -.318 1
What part of "fuck off" didn't you get? (Or, less confrontationally, yes, you're right, +/- has its limitations. But many of us get the impression that Oden really contributes positively (last night's game was an obvious example) and this appears to be reflected in the stats. Of course, practically nobody will like to see Travis and Blake so high, because we've all got our pet trades where their expiring contracts are what sells it to other teams.)
Rasta, I posted, "Just give them the site" with the link, then I belatedly saw that you had underlined the word "here" and linked already. So never mind.
I actually think +/- has it's merits, but there are always exceptions. Last night Travis went 1-9 and still had a +1. Regardless of his + rating, I think it's fair to say he played like shit.
I actually disagree. I think he did mostly OK last night except from scoring. He grabbed 5 rebounds, his defense on Gay was far from horrible and other than 2 shots that were questionable - he took good shots - just did not convert them. Bad shooting night? No doubt. Great game - not even close - but he did not play like shit last night. He was just misfiring - but playing within the offense, running after balls and most of the time his defense looked OK there. There are times you look at Travis and wonder what he is doing out there - I did not think it was the case last night. He drove to the rim hard instead of settling for off-balance jump-shots, he went for rebounds, he paid attention to his man. Just a bad shooting night. I thought he was just pressing out there with his shots trying to put a show for his friends and family. Wish it was better - but overall, not even close to playing like shit, imho.
To Travis's credit (or maybe you have to credit covariance and autocorrelation) he played OK defense on Mayo et al -- or at least the team played good defense and covered up for his horrific shooting. This is why you have to look at adjusted plus/minus and look at who he was matched up against on a per possession basis to get a better feel for what his real impact on the game was. My gut feeling is that he hurt more than he helped with those fugly jumpers that weren't falling, but I don't really feel like watching the game again to analyze what he did on the court.
Not to single you out, but I didn't see it that way at all. I saw him have a wide open shot of a couple dribbles, but he choose to dribble into the strong defense to score. Also, some of his plays like at the end of the quarter, instead of passing to a wide open blake, he dribbled into traffic and tossed a crazy ass prayer. Sometimes I see him on the court and say, if the dude ain't scoring, take his ass out cause he's worthless...
You know - I kind of think that there are things we do not see happening behind the curtains when we comment on them, like Nate taking Greg out with 2 fouls and not playing him the entire half - and then you find out that they had the 1 foul per quarter thing going on. I am looking at Travis this year - and I like the fact he is driving hard - even if some of these jump shots might have happened. I suspect someone like Monte talked to him about driving hard, absorbing contact and getting to the foul line. Some nights it will work, some it will not - but overall, this is a positive production for Travis. Even with his miserable night last night, so far, this year, his production (PER) is more efficient than it was before. With this grand look at things - I do not think it was bad. If you put people in position they can not succeed - I agree that it's bad - but I think Travis has the speed, has the length, has the jump and to a degree has the handle to attack the rim a lot more than take jump shots. It's a good thing he is doing it - even if you are going to have some ugly games out there. Sooner or later he will master that - and it will make him a much more valuable player.
That thing with Greg is assinine. No problem taking him out after 2 fouls, but he should put him in to the game in the second period at some point. Greg, the officials, and Greg's teammates need to learn how to react when GO has 3 fouls.
Yeah, it seems all last year, people complained about jacking up terrible jump shots, I don't think there should be any complaints about him trying to get to the hoop.
I do not agree with you, frankly, especially since Greg's 2 early fouls were very avoidable and were both Greg's fault. Holding him accountable is not a bad thing, imho. If you can correct these problems early in his career - you should - and I think that's why they went this way. It will pay off in the long run.
I think we will end up with a center who is more timid on defense because he knows if he fouls he will get pulled.
Okay I concede on this issue, since it always bothered me in the past that Outlaw wouldn't take it to the paint. If that means a few turn overs, then so be it. The sooner the majority of our players realize taking the ball in the paint will help the outcome of our games, the better. If that's really what's happening with Outlaw, then I embrace it. I am not one that wants one of the Blazers to fail, in order to give another some burn or anything. I always want the best for every player.
He did not seem timid to me in the 2nd half. He seemed in control. The 3 fouls he got in the 2nd half I was ok with - they were either smart ones, unavoidable or refs being a bit trigger happy. The 2 early fouls he got were stupid and well deserved. Just my opinion.
My initial reaction was similar to MM's when I heard about it, but after thinking about it a little bit, I'm convinced this is actually a good thing. A lot of Greg's fouls seem to come from a lapse in concentration, not just getting jobbed by the officials. And if this helps him become more court aware and more aware of his importance to staying on the floor then I'm all for letting it run its course until (or if) he gets it under control. Furthermore, I think there's something to be said for him getting 18+ minutes in the second half of a game where he can come in and be the extra crack that finally busts the damn open. There was something about the way he came in to the third and fourth quarter and absolutely took it to the Grizz that you could see visibly demoralized guys like Gasol and Zach when they realized there was nothing they could to stop him unless they doubled hard.
