We've all seen lots of complaints on here about Nate's substituion patterns. How Joel always comes in around the 6 minute mark, not allowing the hothand in the first quarter to stay in,etc. Was going through SA's game log recently. Looking at their first few games, before Parker got injured. Was weird how a much better coach than Nate had a very similar problem. He had a pattern. And he generally stuck to it. Manu comes in around the 7 minute mark. Parker goes out around the 4-3 minute mark. Bonner and either Jefferson or Finley out at around the 4.5 minute mark. It's weird. Every game. Hot hand or not, Parker is out at the same time. Why won't Pop ride him? Or has Parker not been on at all this entire year in the first quarter? What gives? I was lead to believe it wsa a serious problem that we seemed to be alone in having. But the bestcoach in the game does this as well? Is it spreading? I'm too lazy right now, and at work to look it up, but I'm willing to bet a lot of coaches have a similar substitution pattern they work off of. I recall seeing it from Phil Jackson a lot. I also recall seeing opposing fans in game threads mock their coach, something along the lines of oh, it's (insert time frame here), time for (insert player here) to get his 4 minute rest.
How has it worked for Pop in his career? I have read/heard interviews with players where they say it is very important for them to know when they are coming into and going out of a game. This especially makes sense in the 1st half...
Yep. A lot of players like to "know their schedule" And you see most coaches, including Nate, do their heavy tinkering with the lineup and rotations in the 4th quarter.
I don't know. Do you? Do you have the sub patterns he used last season or the season before? Have they changed? Maybe he's doing this to figure out the new players he has playing now. Not saying he's a bad coach. He's a champion. But don't know what happened during the successful years.
So you've never noticed any other coach having a substitution pattern before? He had a pattern. The majority of coaches, I would say, do.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=290418024 This game Parker stays in until the 2nd period and immediately comes in at the 8:27 mark (only 4 minute rest).
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=290403011 This game Parker plays the entire first period and doesn't come back until the 4 minute mark.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=291027022 This game Oden stays in until the 3 minute mark of the first quarter. Look at that. I guess there isn't a pattern to either of them. The game you showed was a playoff game. Everyone knows rotations get tightened in the playoffs.
In fact, I have been randomly looking at the subbing patterns last season and noticed it's not very mechanical. If you actually see the transcripts, you will see someone getting the hot hand and he rides them. Also, I've noticed that either Parker, Duncan or Gionobli are in the game for the entire game. I don't see that with our team. There are times when Roy, Aldridge and Oden aren't even on the floor. I don't think comparing a champion coach like Pop to a hard head like Nate should ever be mentioned. I even went as far back as the title years and he was even more random with his coaching.
Yes in playoff games players play more minutes (The ones that are the marquee players on your team), so I would say keeping Oden in for an extra 3 minutes can apply. Look at the regular season last year. They are very mechanical.
It's so weird that he all of a sudden changed it this season. Odd. I mean, he's an extremely successful coach, regarded by most as the best coach in the game. Has had success for many years, and he all of a sudden just changes what has worked for him in the past. So very weird.
Did he though? Or maybe it's something he tried because his core group has changed so drastically. I really don't know. I would trust this team with a proven winner like Pop, any day of the week and twice on Sunday. And Phil Jackson is one of the most random coaches in the game. Remember times when he wouldn't call a time-out and forced his players to play through the tough times? What other coach you know does that?
P.S. I do believe you have a point, since Pop is the coach you would dream of having on your team, but all I'm saying is Nate is far from the quality of Pop. Also, Pop is a proven winner and Nate has been notorious for taking extra long to make a single change. Another thing about Pop that's different than Nate is normally Pop forces other teams to change their game playing the Spurs because he takes advantages of mismatches, while Nate doesn't. If you look at the talent of this ball club with just the 3 key players: Oden, Roy and Aldridge, there are terrible mismatches for any team facing us, as long as we could utilize that talent. I just don't see Nate taking advantage. I don't see Nate making any gambles whatsoever. Sometimes the great coaches are ones that think outside the box and really milk the hot hand. Allowing Parker and Gionobli almost recklessly drive into the paint (When I use the word reckless, I mean just the speed they run in the paint), that's a ton of trust you give your player. The minute a player gets 2 turn overs, they are yanked out of the game.
OK...it's unscientific but I just grabbed 4 games from Feb of last year...was going to do Parker and Duncan but Duncan had a DNP so I skipped him...here ya go...looks pretty rigid to me... 2/19/09 Q1 1:46 remaining Parker Out 2/21/09 Q1 2:29 remaining Parker Out 2/24/09 Q1 2:26 remaining Parker Out 2/25/09 Q1 3:09 remaining Parker Out
I'm not at all saying Nate is perfect, and I am not saying he is without his flaws. My thread wasn't started to discuss his trust in a PG running a one man break, or his utilization of his players(although I will say he's utilized Roy very well, I don't know how that can be disputed). What I was starting a thread about was the complaints about his substitution patterns, and pointing out that other coaches do this as well. Many do. Sorry, I just chose the best example, as opposed to going team by team. But most coaches have a pattern they use, especially early in a game. So it either seems to me to be an invalid complaint of Nate, or one that shouldn't be made because all coaches do it, so changing coaches won't change that.
I went back to their last championship seaon, 06-07. Looking at the first month of the season, Parker came out in the first with, 4:22, 3:49, 2:31, 4:09, 3:40, 3:11, 4:24, 3:00, 1:29, 1:02, 2:09, 0:00, 3:05, 1:16 and 3:59. He didn't yank him EVERY game at 4:00 on the dot. But he was fairly consistent in his subbing of Parker.
