Government starting to tell women they don't need breast exams if they're under 50...

Re: Government starting to tell women they don't need breast exams if they're under 5

Yes, but when we flood the system with the Government its only going to get worse. Patients start turning into numbers now and deaths are nothing more than statistical losses. And we're talking about some pretty basic tests like annual mammograms that have been known to save lives. What happens to those people? They just die and become an "oh well"? Kind of sucks if you are them or know someone who did not get their cancer caught early.

 

Re: Government starting to tell women they don't need breast exams if they're under 5

The end result of your position is that more people die in the interest to save money.

 

Re: Government starting to tell women they don't need breast exams if they're under 5

Really? So all of the countries in the socialized world have for some inexplicable reason continued with their system despite, apparently, their masses dying left and right and being ignored as just statistical losses. Interesting..better tell the people in Switzerland. They're happy with their system but apparently ignorant to the fact that they've all turned into numbers. Same with the French, Argentinians, Belgians, Canadians, Chileans, Fins, Greeks, Italians, Japanese, Dutch, Portuguese, Swedes, South Koreans, and the British. Even the Germans, for God's sake, have figured out that companies handling health care should be non-profit and that their should be health care for everyone, not just emergency care. The Germans, I mean...come on!

What's funny about this in the sort of tragic, people bleeding partisan until they their eyes turn red or blue is the fact that you seem to want to read into this as the government is the exception to everything.

This panel, made up of experts from many different respected medical institutions, comes out with a recommendation on many things. Those recommendations are adopted by most of the medical community. And you can bet your ass that if there is some statistical relevance to payment on a treatment or cure that the insurance companies are going to have a team of actuaries who will analyze that and reflect rates accordingly, or even decide to cover. But somehow, somewhere, you've managed to make it out as the government, and only the government, will be the sole leader going out into the field and cutting off all mammograms. You've extrapolated an entire policy set around this one recommendation that leads to people dying left and right.

My first question is, did you even read the task force's report?

 

Re: Government starting to tell women they don't need breast exams if they're under 5

Those countries are no where the size and scope of the United States. What we are talking about here is an increase in deaths and increase in cancer rates in the interest of saving money, not whether or not country "X" has a good healthcare system or not.

I'm sure if you take a limited sample of wealthy countries like Switzerland, sure its going to be fantastic. Its like asking people in Beverly Hills if they like how their city maintains their streets, then using that to make an argument for the entire city of Los Angeles.

 

Re: Government starting to tell women they don't need breast exams if they're under 5

I read the summary of the subject of this thread. I've been generally adverse to outcome-based epidemiology as I feel it takes a human element out of medicine and has computer models tell us what the best treatment would be. The thing about computers is that they will let someone die, even if preventable, if it does not fit their model.

 

Re: Government starting to tell women they don't need breast exams if they're under 5

How long do you think that's going to last? If you think that this health care bill is just some benign piece of legislation that will go no farther, than all I can say is it must be nice living in Candyland. If you offer coverage to everyone, restrict what physicians can be paid and try to rein in costs, then what do you think is going to be constrained? Services. Health care will have to be rationed. Under our current system, you can get a mammogram whenever you please. Under a future system with rationing, you can get a mammogram when the government lets you have one. There isn't a socialized health care system on the planet where health care isn't rationed. We'll be no different.

It's not that I won't have the freedom to pay for one on my own, it's that I won't have the freedom to obtain this test at all.

 

Re: Government starting to tell women they don't need breast exams if they're under 5

Don't Canadians come over the border to get some healthcare here in the US if the line is "too long" in Canadia?

 

Re: Government starting to tell women they don't need breast exams if they're under 5

Hmm, which "insurance" company rejects a higher percentage of claims than any other major insurer? Why, it's Medicare! http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/368/reportcard.pdf (page 5, Metric 12). I thought the Government was the only one that cared? Not like those greedy insurance companies. The funny thing is, even rejecting 6.85% of all claims, it's still $66B in the hole and on the verge of bankruptcy. And yet, you and your ilk's answer is to expand Medicare and like programs for everyone. Bizarre.

 

Re: Government starting to tell women they don't need breast exams if they're under 5

My ilk?

You seem to have this hangup on assigning me a viewpoint in every thread you discuss something. I'm flattered by your attention, but really, you know nothing about me. Let's keep it that way.

 

Re: Government starting to tell women they don't need breast exams if they're under 5

I gave HCP's wife a breast exam last weekend.

 

Re: Government starting to tell women they don't need breast exams if they're under 5

Yes, but she paid for it, so that really doesn't count. And I don't think the recommendations call for a 45 minute exam. Or was that 4.5 minutes?

 

Re: Government starting to tell women they don't need breast exams if they're under 5

Are you in favor or against universal government sponsored health care?

BTW, I notice you couldn't respond to what I presented.

 

Re: Government starting to tell women they don't need breast exams if they're under 5

No, it's just that I don't really care what you have to say..

 

Re: Government starting to tell women they don't need breast exams if they're under 5

Yet you responded to me rather than my ideas. You care greatly.

 

Re: Government starting to tell women they don't need breast exams if they're under 5

We pay the most, because we receive the best care in the world. When you look at what our health care system can do once you get into it, read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Business-Health-Robert-Ohsfeldt/dp/0844742406

It was a study that if you had the same injury in every country in the world, regardless of insurance coverage, you stand the best likelihood of survival and recovery in this country.

Tell that to the women whose lives were saved by catching the disease early. The "hassle cost" of false positives, early treatment that proved to be unneccesary, etc. doesn't outweigh the lives saved.

That's because being proactive is almost always better when it comes to health care. There is no reputable physician who would argue the opposite. Besides, it should be the patient's choice whether or not they receive this care, shouldn't it? That's why I oppose government health care so much. My body isn't controlled by the government.

 

Re: Government starting to tell women they don't need breast exams if they're under 5

What the hell are you talking about? Where did you get all that garbage from?

If there is a govt mandated or govt run insurance scheme, and that scheme does not cover a test you want -

then haul your ass to a doctor a pay for the goddamn test yourself. No one is stopping you. Where do get this crap from?

THAT is freedom. Not all this hypothetical nonsense you are making up about stuff that hasn't even happened yet.

 

Re: Government starting to tell women they don't need breast exams if they're under 5

Do you even understand how this system will work?

This talking point of "contractually obligated" vs the government can do whatever the fuck it wants is just stupid.

 

Re: Government starting to tell women they don't need breast exams if they're under 5

Experience living in countries with socialized medicine. What makes you think we're going to stop with this bill? What government program has ever stayed the same size? They grow. They encroach. And there will be rationing.

Because doctors and patients won't have the option to practice medicine as they see fit. How do I know this will occur? Because it's happened in every country that's adopted socialized medicine. All the Democrats care about is getting a foothold. The rest will take care of itself The government will dictate the care given because there won't be enough healthcare to go around. If you wish to practice medicine in the US, you're going to have to be licensed by the government. If you wish to get insured, there won't be insurance companies offering malpractice anymore; that will be taken over by the government.

The willing misunderstanding of those on the Left as to what this healthcare bill will mean for the American people is shocking.

Freedom is not having the Federal Government having control over my body and how I choose to treat it. As for what I'm stating as being hypothetical, go ahead and remain ignorant. It's a typical path that other countries have gone down. What makes you think we're any different?