Exactly. Dirk doesnt have a low post game. That is a key part for a Power Forward. Because of that the Mavs do not have much of an inside game. Low post scorers score at a much higher percentage then long range shooters so that is an added bonus. Posting up and being an inside scorer are not the same thing. Posting up is when you try to back down your defender to get into the low post, it can also be used for a little turnaround jumper which Brand is also good at. Low post scoring simply scoring inside the paint. They are different things Mavsfan. Duh. Brand does not do perimeter defense. He defends the inside very well and he is a solid shotblocker and a solid defender. He is better then Dirk because Dirk is a joke at defense. Quote me for all I care. I dont give a <Censored>. Dirk sucks at defense. Yeah I guess you are right there, they are equal in terms of passing.
Advantages of a jump shooting/slasher for a power forward.1. It takes bigs away from the basket and makes it harder for them to help on defense.2. It puts bigs in an uncomfortable position that they aren't used to guarding the perimeter.3. It allows other players to slash easier (Josh Howard)Disadvantages1. Less Rebounds2. Longer shots= Longer Rebounds which help the other team score off of fastbreaks. 3. Occassionally the other teams SF could guard Dirk allowing the PF to stay home. Dirk is the better outside shooter than Brand is low post scorer so advantage goes to Dirk. Kaman is a better defender than Brand. Before Kaman the Clippers were horrible on defense.
I said equal because they are both are the same. Brand a better low post defender and Dirk a better perimeter and pick and roll defender. They play completely different. Just throw a big body like Diop on Brand and he will struggle.
Dirk's a matchup problem, that's why he scores and is hard to defend. Someone similar to him like Kevin Garnett can defend him, the problem is that there's few 7 footers who have a perimeter game.Regardless, they score in different ways and I will say that Dirk is the better scorer, but not by much. Elton is the better rebounder, I don't think that's been disputed and he's certainly the better defender. In terms of all around game, he's the better player.Elton is 4th in Efficiency, while Dirk is 6th. So he IS the more efficient player.
Dirk is 41% from 3 pointers. 41%*1.5=62% if it was counted as 2 points. 91% from the free throw is great also. Dallas has had no problems with Brand this year. He is very stoppable. He is more of a slasher than a post up player anyways. Like Stoudmire. A 2 rebound difference. Incredible.
Elton is also 4% higher in FG% as I said, which is a significant margin. I'm not even disputing that Dirk isn't the superior offensive force, I gave you that.You have yet to prove how he's the better defender though. Dirk has a slight edge in offense and he loses in defense and rebounding, so I would rather have Elton on my team.
Dirk does not lose in defense. There is no way to prove defense. Dirk is better at stepping out on players and is a respectful defender in the low post. He knocks a lot of balls lose. Elton Brand is a respectable low post defender and can't step out against players that can shoot mid range or deeper. I can't believe all the Dirk bashing here just because he doesn't play like normal power forwards.
Elton averages more blocks and steals, and he defends in the post far better than Dirk, he's the better defender.
The steals are the same and Elton Brand has Kaman take all the difficult assignments on defense since Elton is a poor one on one defender. Elton Brand is an easier player to help off also since he is under the basket unlike Dirk who is almost impossible to help off on. Kaman>DiopMaggette<HowardMobley>GriffinCassell<Terry. The teams are pretty equal plus the Clippers have a pretty good bench as well. The deciding factor is Dirk>Brand
Guys noone will budge on this. Dirk fans will come up with stats just as good or better than Brand supporters, ditto for the guys that like Brand.It comes down to preference.Some guys don't like the idea of a versatile big man that has an outside game.And some guys like the versatile guy, that can score in any way possible.Ya'll talk about shooting %, and it's not a fair comparison because Dirk doesn't take the high percentage shots that Brand gets from being only a low post player. I think some of you Dirk haters, are living off of old perceptions with Dirk. No he's not Ben Wallace on defense, neither is Brand...but Dirk isn't a liability anymore, and he DOES have a post game. Whenever his shot isn't falling, he has to get in the post, and he still gets his points. He's just not a post only player like Brand.If Brand can't get points in the post, he can't bounce outside and start shooting long 2's or 3's. When Dirk's shot isn't falling, he CAN get to the post, score, and get fouled.Overall StatsBrand:Brand 24.7 ppg, 10 rpg, 2.6 <Censored>, 2.5 blcksDirkirk 26.6 ppg, 9 rpg, 2.8 <Censored>, 1 blcksBrand does get more blcks, but getting blocks doesn't make you a great defensive player. PPG and ASP the edge to Dirk.Dirk gets one less rebound per game than Brand, that doesn't make Brand SO much better than Dirk. You actually have to wonder why Brand doesn't avg way more than Dirk considering Dirk is a perimiter player, and Brand makes his living on the Block. So I'd give that a push, not Brand THAT much a better rebounder than Dirk.Brand does have a higher shooting%, but most post good offensive post players will have good shooting % over a perimeter player, that's been true for many, many years.So I dont' think his shooting percentage should amount to that much since he gets shots inside the lane more, not because Dirk doesn't have post game, but because Dirk is more effective from outside.Once again, this is all about perception. And who you like.If you like a 7 ft post only player, than Brand is probably the better one. But if you want a versatile 7 footer, who has no offensive weakness, and a top 5 player in the league, than you go Dirk.It's a choice, I"m not going to say ones better than the other.But I'll tell you this, Dirk is a legit MVP candidate, Brand was just in the discussion, but not a real threat to win it. I think that says alot about this too.
I don't know how anyone can say Brand is better, yet say Dirk is better than LeBron...IMO, I think Brand fits better on most teams and a more conventional big man, while Dirk fits bette ron a faster paced team and a team that already has a good low post player.
Mavsfan Elton is obviously the better defender here. He defends the post really well. He wont let anyone get anything on him. He jumps up and blocks that shot back. He doesnt budge when players try to post him up as well. Dirk is a poor defender, he looks lost on defense.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ Apr 23 2006, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Overall StatsBrand 24.7 ppg, 10 rpg, 2.6 <Censored>, 2.5 blcksDirk 26.6 ppg, 9 rpg, 2.8 <Censored>, 1 blcksBrand does get more blcks, but getting blocks doesn't make you a great defensive player. If you like a 7 ft post only player, than Brand is probably the better one. But if you want a versatile 7 footer, who has no offensive weakness, and a top 5 player in the league, than you go Dirk.It's a choice, I"m not going to say ones better than the other.But I'll tell you this, Dirk is a legit MVP candidate, Brand was just in the discussion, but not a real threat to win it. I think that says alot about this too.</div>You make a good point it is about perception, i am the type of person that likes to have his big men playing down low near the basket. Your more the type that likes to have a versatile big man that can score from anywhere on the court. Neither one of us are wrong, it's just about the style of play we like better.And your right, getting blocks doesn't make you a great defensive player but it makes you a valuable part of the team. I think people fail to realize the significance a shot blocker has with the team defense concept. That shot blocker is what allows the team to be better defensively, because it stops the Tony Parkers of the world from driving into the lane and getting points so easily. Having Brand down low, while maybe not resulting in a block, will make Tony Parker have to alter his shot, and make it more diffucult. So defensively, his shot blocking ability makes him more valuable on defense than Dirk would be.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheAnalyst @ Apr 21 2006, 09:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Elton Brand cause he actually plays like the positions hes supposed to.</div>I dont understand why you would pick a guy on his reasoning. If you guys havent noticed the position is evolving. It is moving farther from the block. The Karl Malone prototype of power foward is a dying breed. You guys watch, within 10 years from now, most power fowards will be playing thier position more like Nowitzki and less like a Tim Duncan or Elton Brand. Next, i dont understand how lots of ya'll rate Dirk as the 2nd or 3rd best power foward a while ago in a different topic. You guys said it was 1. Tim Duncan, 2. KG, and then 3rd Nowitzki. All of a sudden ya'll start changing your minds on this. I think Nowitzki is the better player.1.Yes there is a difference between shooting and scoring. Look at Iverson. His shooting is one of the worst in the League by FG%. But no one in their right mind would say he sucks at scoring the basketball. Its the same thing here. Dirk is a better shooter than Elton. You will say, look at the FG%. Elton shoots a way better %. You guys have to take into account the fact where Dirk shoots most of his shots compared to where Brand does. Hell i could shoot that % in the NBA if i shot the shots that Brand takes. Most of his shots are within 10 foot of the basket.2. On saying that, i also think Dirk is a better scorer. He has a knack for scoring. He can shoot 3's, score in the block extended, he can take defenders off the dribble. He is a way better free throw shooter. Just a better shooter. If you had a map of Dirk's shots compared to one of Brand's, Brand's, most of his would be all in the paint. Dirk's would be distributed all over the court. I think that would show he is able to score in more ways.3.Now of all you guys that say Brand is a superb defender and that Dirk sucks <Censored>, Do you actaully watch any Clipper and Maverick games??I highly doubt it. Dirk does not get the credit for his defense. Now of course he isnt locking guys down like Bruce Bowen or something, but neither is Elton Brand. I would say they are pretty even in this part of thier games. Brand has the better stats on D, but that doesnt mean he is a better defender. Example, Larry Hughes gets a ton of steals. Would you say based just on that he is a great defender??Hughes stole the ball nearly 3 times a game last season. Bruce Bowen has only averaged 1 steal per game 4 times in his whole career. Now who would you say was the better defender between those two?? I think we all know. Dirk and Brand are pretty much even here. 4.Passing the ball isnt really a strength to either guy. Both only get around 3 assists a game. I would say this is even. 5.Rebounding. Now i really didn't read everything on this topic before posting my opinion, but from what i read, Maverick fans are saying Dirk is a better rebounder while others say Brand is. Brand does have better numbers, but there is a few reasons for this. As a team, Brand's team, shoots about the samw % from the field as Dirk's and Thier opponents shoot roughly the same %. Only one major difference. Teams shoot more shots against the Clippers than the Mavericks. On the season, they shot the ball 263 more times than the opponents of the Mavericks. Brand gets more chances than Dirk. Brand also is the major rebounder on the Clippers. The top three rebounders on the Clippers are Brand at 10, Kaman at 9 and Maggette at 5. On the Mavericks, the top rebounders are Dirk at 9, Dampier at 8 and Howard at 6. The Mavericks have more rebounders than the Clippers. No matter how much you guys say that that doesnt matter, it does. Also, look at where Dirk spends most of his time on the court compared to Brand. Of course Brand is going to get more rebounds just because of where is he is on the court. Dirk is farther from the basket compared to Brand. Upon saying that, Brand is a terrific rebounder and is a better one than Dirk is in my opinion, but not by much. You guys make is out like Brand is rebounding the ball like Rodman and Dirk is rebounding like Mugsy Bouges. Dirk is the better player. End of story.
Imma say they're both extremely equal since both can score very well inside, and rebound a lot. The two categories in which they are different are 3 pt. shooting and blocking. Obviously, Dirk shoots the 3 at a high %age, while EB only attempts about 4 a season. When it comes to blocking, Brand is very active while Dirk gets one or two every other game.
Brand causes defensive problems inside. Nowitzki doesnt cause defensive problems inside that badly but he is a defensive problem all over the court. I don't think T-mac would say that he would hold brand cause he is not going to be near the outskirts and is not a problem. Moreover, he can't hold brands post. Nowitzki now u gotta watch out for him.Nowitzki is a 7 foot excellent shooter. He is nearly impossible to block because he jumps when shooting unlike Sabonis like shooters. He can post you up and make you think he is going inside but can easily just fade away shoot over most defenders.I didnt bring up defense because it is hard to tell because i mainly just see them on the offensive when I see them play. Statistically brand is better. But if u take the bowen type of outlook on defense, I can't answer that.
Nowitzki causes more defensive problems outside than Brand inside. Teams have to alter their whole defense because one of their bigs is guarding the perimeter and that gives other players like Howard and Daniels more space to operate. It also wears out players that have to run and chase Dirk around. Brand is easier to slow down if you have a big that can play physical like Diop or Dampier.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (arya202 @ Apr 21 2006, 12:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Elton's an undersized PF with a prototypical power forward game and Dirk is and oversized swingman.</div>Actually Brand is only 6'9" but has a wingspand of 7'3"
