I don't feel that Nash has a compete enough of a game to be called the MVP over players that do everything for their team like Kobe and Lebron.
Kobe scores for his team and defends occasionalySteve Nash scores for his team and gets everyone involved on a consistent basis. He does more for his team than Kobe.And LeBron does more for his team than Nash and Kobe, but again, he wasn't on an elite team. You need to be on an elite team to win the MVP, a pattern that hasn't changed since the early 80s
Well i'm not going to get into another Nash/Kobe argument, but clearly you're not giving Kobe enough credit.
He plays inconsistent defense at best, and does absolutely nothing for his teammates. If anything, these playoffs have furthered my argument: Passing = production, something Kobe refused to do in the regular season
Do I have to repeat myself?This series against Suns: 25.5 PPG, lose by 5 and win. He has been very unselfishRegular season: 43 PPG against Suns, lose 4 games by an average of 13.5 PPG. Kobe is passive: His team plays better. He simply chose not to do it in the regular season
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KMart @ Apr 27 2006, 05:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You guys realize it's the 2004-2005 MVP and 2005-2006 MVP? It's not the All-Time MVP. In 2004-2005, it was between Shaq and Nash. Nash led his team to a bigger win differential, averaged 19 and 11. Shaq had better stats, but wasn't as valuable on his team as Shaq.In 2005-2006, it was between Nash, Kobe, and LeBron. Again, Nash simply led his team to a better record than those guys, and had solid stats to back it up.Again, it's simply your definition of MVP, and since 1982, the general consensus between fans and voters has been : The player who means the most to a winning team</div>Bron led his team to what, 3 less wins than Nash? Bron averaged 32/7/7 to what, 20/10? Bron's 2nd option was hurt 1/2 the year, where Nash's second option is also an MVP cnadidate? Nash's team was on a huge downslide near end of season, but didn't Bron's Cavs go on huge winning streaks towards end of season? Did LeBron not break historic records of most accumulated points for youngest player (ie= youngest to break 5,000 points), one of 3 players with 9 straight games or more of 35 points, one of like 4 players in history to average 32/7/6, and win the All Star Game MVP? Did he not finish season 2nd in triple doubles? Did he not end season with most 30 point games?It was between Bron and Kobe, Nash doesn't deserve it at all.
Let's give every PG who averages 19/10 and has a good team MVP. Because they make their teams better....Oh wait, they play PG, thats what they are supposed to do.
Yes but BCB again, watch games. Steve Nash is one of the few point guards in the NBA who actually does make his teammates better.And Nash does deserve it. Whether he deserves it as much as LeBron or Kobe is arguable to the person, but saying he doesn't deserve it at all is downright stupid. He's putting up comparable numbers to John Stockton's, one of the Greatest point guards ever. That in itself deserves some recognition. Add to the fact that he is leading his team to one of the best records in the West, and how does he not atleast deserve it? How is he not atleast a competitor?
Yeah, Nash does deserve it, but two things you MUST remember:1. Nash isn't even the most efficient player on his team, despite his 3-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio.2. Nash is only getting his consideration on ONE side of the court. I'm sure Marion will be an All-League First Team Defender, LeBron was just okay (great on open floor and fast break), Dirk made a lot of commitment to lead his defense to the 7th-best in the league, and Billups has done the defense consistently, and Bryant is no liability at all on the defensive side of the ball.So I guess Nash wins it, despite ESPN's analysts being paid to favor the people who are not as obvious as an MVP. The final results will be interesting, though.
Nash handes the ball the most, so you exoect TOs to go up. That somewhat accounts to his efficiency, even though I must admit it would help assist totals.However I agree, the final voting will be interesting
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KMart @ Apr 27 2006, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He's putting up comparable numbers to John Stockton's, one of the Greatest point guards ever.</div>And how many MVP trophies did Stockton win? D'Antoni's offense is only reason Nash thrives, and I feel Kidd and Billups are better players than Nash.One MVP was cute, 2 MVP's is a disagrace.
lol the big thing here is.. nash improves all the other players on his team.billups already has leaders on his team.. and kidd has dropped off a looong time ago.any GM would take nash over those two anyday. you all know that right?
Don't be condescending with the whole "obvious" question posed to us to make us all look like the idiots who don't agree with you.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (regularguy @ Apr 27 2006, 11:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>lol the big thing here is.. nash improves all the other players on his team.billups already has leaders on his team.. and kidd has dropped off a looong time ago.any GM would take nash over those two anyday. you all know that right?</div>I never said they deserved MVP....I said they are better players. Nash plays 0 defense, and offensively, Kidd can run a team better than Nash, and Billups is a better scorer. And every great player makes his teammates better. Look at people who come through NJ....they all become great. VC has had 2 fantastic seasons with the nets, KMart will never be as good as he was with the Nets, and people like Kittles thrived off Kidd. Look at people on LA and how they are doing. No one even heard of Smush Parker before this year. Look at Cavs and how many open looks the jumpshooters get from Bron.
nitro -- i can give you the same argument w/ nash and his team.. except that the players on his team came from ROCK bottom. nash turned players like raja bell, and boris diaw from bad to great. amare stoudemire from a 16 ppg to a 25 ppg. VC was ALREADY a star before he came onto the team w/ kidd. you can't say that he would of had a better year w/o kidd either because we all know what vince carter is capable of. he's had the same numbers w/ his toronto team as he has had w/ his nets team. kidd didn't do it for him. smush parker came into one of the worst teams in the league (the lakers) bench-wise. he actually saw playing time for the first time, of course he would get better.. he went from 6.8 minutes a game to 33.9 minutes a game. we all know kobe is one of the biggest ball hogs of the game.. (but he has been improving as of late.) but why would you argue lebron for the MVP? he's too young for anything, the media is on him 24/7, no one would give him MVP. people hang on his every shot. if he misses one, they think they suck, if he makes one, he's a god. lebron would have to be perfect to ever get it. with his team, they should be sweeping the wizards.
Bron's team has been a letdown this whole season, Hughes was out for 45 games, and there 3rd best player this seaosn is averaging only 10PPG. 32/7/7 is best stas in league. period. And his team only lost 3 more games than the Suns, which had a far superior team (Marion, Diaw, Bell, Kurt Thomas, Tim Thomas, Eddie House etc...). Nash is only good in D'Antoni's offense. Bron has to deal with halfcourt offenses with very few jumpshooters. Suns are all jumpshooters.PS- Look at Real Deal's posts a few posts back, he showed that very few Suns are doing much better this year, and the ones who are are averaging many more minutes.
