Shorten the Rotation

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by UKRAINEFAN, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    I am advocating that Webster be dropped out of the rotation completely. The kid is too psychologically fragile (leading to inconsistency, leading to fear of taking a shot), and having a psychologist on staff doesn't seem to help. This is a problem with drafting a high school kid who really hasn't dealt with the pressure of bigtime college basketball (unless you have the kind of personality of a LeBron or Kobe).

    Sitting Martell should open up more time for Bayless, Rudy and Batum and all three need time to either develop their skills or show they don't deserve more time. This will certainly help the team long term, and I think will probably help shortterm also.
     
  2. The Other Guys

    The Other Guys Luda Davis

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    When we made that Camby deal I wish somehow we dealt him instead of Outlaw. Webster can be so hot sometimes but it's hard to watch him when he struggles so badly. It was great watching him be that energy player that was all over the place on defense and hitting every 3 in January, but it just washes away somehow. I dunno?
     
  3. Chuck Taylor

    Chuck Taylor BATUUUM SHAKKA LAKKA!

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    On the same topic, why did Cunningham play more than Batum tonight? I like the kid, but he's not as good as Batum!
     
  4. The Other Guys

    The Other Guys Luda Davis

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    [​IMG]
    Because of this guy......
     
  5. Nate Dogg

    Nate Dogg Active Member

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    Only 3 min more. Whats wrong giving him experience for a rookie?
     
  6. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    This psychological stuff is pretty bullshit IMO.

    He isn't earning the minutes so he's not getting the calls right now...big deal. You just don't write guys "out of the rotation". Like 0 minutes per game for the rest of the year? What fucked up universe do you live on where this kind of thing happens? Its just weird, fucked up shit.

    He's a streaky shooter, has done well, has not....up and down. Right now he's Batum's backup, don't know how cutting him out of the rotation opens up more minutes for Bayless, our backup PG or Rudy, our backup SG.

    He's scored in double figures 17 out of the last 25 games for christ's sake. You don't just randomly drop guys "out of the rotation" to open up playing time for guys that don't play his position :crazy:

    He's shooting 40% from 3 point land for this month. 39% last month.
     
  7. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    The last 4 games, he really hasn't played HORRIBLE, just kind of non-involved in the game...he doesn't screw up and the major runs happened when he was out of the game anyways.
     
  8. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    So are you for it or against it? ;)

    I agree with you, though. I'm not the biggest Webster fan, but he's certainly not been the sort of trainwreck that deserves being shelved entirely. He's likely never going to be the impact player a lot of Blazers fans envisioned, but he is a legitimate NBA reserve.

    Give Batum starter minutes, which he deserves, give Webster the 10-13 MPG that an unexceptional reserve should get and everything's in its right place.
     
  9. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    Let's compare February's for a surging batum and a slumping Webster:

    Webster
    24.1 mpg
    9.6ppg
    1.3 apg
    2.3 rpg
    0.3 blk
    0.5 stl
    40.8% FG
    40% 3PT

    Batum
    22.1 mpg
    7.8ppg
    0.5 apg
    3.5 rbg
    0.7 blk
    0.4 stl

    51.6% FG
    37.9% 3PT


    Its not THAT big of a difference. And the +/- doesn't seem to be THAT huge when either of them are in/out.

    Its just that people seem to like Batum more so they assume he's doing WORLD's better..but the problem really isn't there at the SF position.
     
  10. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    The shooting percentage difference is actually pretty enormous. And Batum is a tremendous defender while Webster is merely passable.

    I think Batum is markedly better. That doesn't make Webster hot garbage though.
     
  11. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    Webster is a fine backup. He's making "fine backup" money right now....sure, we'd love to have Chris Paul right now, but who cares, we have 'Tell on the team...the only major upgrade over him we could get would push Batum out of the starting lineup.
     
  12. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    I think the argument could be made that Webster is a swing player (sf/sg) and that him being on the bench could open up more time for another swing player (Rudy) and a guy many consider a Sg (Bayless).

    For me, consistency is really important and Martell just has not developed that. Rudy also has not, but he's been on the big stage in Europe and I think with more playing time, he could attain consistency. Who knows? But I think the rotation is too long right now for players to develop skills and for the team to find cohesion.

    I understand some people may be attached to Martell, he hasn't had the easiest road in life, but it might even be good for him to sit and decide for himself what he needs to do to have that consistent intensity and to develop confidence in himself that is separate from confidence of others in him.
     
  13. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    Martell doesn't take ANY minutes from Bayless and Rudy. Maybe when Blake was here, but now he doesn't. He is a permanent fixture at the 3 and has been for as long as he's been here.

    And I hope to pray he's not some emo that needs to find himself. He's in a slump, it happens to a lot of players...so his minutes are reduced. I don't see any need to change what's going on. Just have him earn his minutes, I could give a damn about his so-called mental problems. Its too touchy-feely-lame to me. This is a man's league, you play bad, you (usually) get your minutes chopped.
     
  14. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    I think I I have overstated my case, El Presidente; perhaps I should have just stuck to stating that Batum should be getting 40 minutes a night, and whenever there is thought of going to a smaller lineup, I would put Rudy in instead of Martell. At this point I am in favor of giving other guys as much of a chance to develop as possible, so I would favor limiting Martell's minutes. Tonight was OK for me, eight minutes, but I would really be surprised if he can learn how to be effective in eight minutes, but I hope for his sake he learns.
     
  15. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    By the way, I'm not trying to imply that Martell has psychological problems: I just think that to this point he has not developed the mental toughness that is required to be a consistent performer.
     
  16. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    Well, Nicolas needs to get more consistent himself. He plays great in spurts too, but he's as inconsistent as Webster.
     
  17. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    Rudy is inconsistent.

    as is Bayless, who has had the "stresses of college hoops"
     
  18. Kaydow

    Kaydow Well-Known Member

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    And the problem with this is that Martell plays TERRIBLE coming off the bench. I don't know if he loses his confidence, or what. It just hasn't been pretty - ever.
     
  19. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    I don't think I could disagree more. That's not to say that I think Nic is purely consistent, but considering the work he puts in on defense even when he's not producing on offense I don't see this comparison.

    Martell isn't terrible, and he probably is still worthy of rotation minutes, but his predicament is similar to a lot of guys on this team; he's a rhythm player who needs shots and touches to be most effective (Rudy and Bayless come to mind) and with the logjam of wings and guards on this team with the same general profile it's going to be tough moving forward to find him the time he needs to be effective.

    I think it's no coincidence that Martell's most effective month of his career came when he logged 35 minutes a night and didn't have any competition at small forward, a quick scan of his game logs also shows that when he's taking a lot of shots his percentages go up, but when he's not he's posting some truly awful shooting numbers

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=2795

    There's no good answer about what should be done with all of these tertiary players, anything Nate does is going to leave somebody out in the cold.
     
  20. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Not that I disagree with you here--I've made the same argument myself--but I've always been troubled trying to determine in these situations which is the chicken and which is the egg. Was he shooting better because he was getting more shots, or was he given more shots because he was shooting well? Did he play better because he got more minutes, or did his playing time increase because he was playing well?

    Taking it further, isn't this the crux of the "player showcasing" argument? If a team has a player they want to deal, can they increase his value by increasing his minutes and role, thereby facilitating improved play? Making this Blazer-centric, if Rudy really does need to be traded, would this be our best tactic for him (and Webster?), making him more valuable to potential off-season suitors?

    Somebody really needs to do a thesis on this issue. I'd read it.
     

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