in answer to the question of this entire thread.... YES. and i think this team is a 1st round exit every year as is. barkleys right. until we get a tough PF inside type player. we are going nowhere.
If things don't work out, you recognize it, deal with it and move forward. It doesn't matter what player is drafted where, there is always a chance it doesn't work out. Sometimes it happens to your favorite team, and they have to deal with it. It doesn't mean "forver". It just means things didn't go as planned and it's time to come up with a new plan. For some people, that time is now. For others, they still have hope. The only person that mindset matters for is the GM. The rest of us are just along for the ride.
I don't even think it has to be a tough PF type. It just as to be somebody who is tough, period. Too many nice guys on this team.
Certainly, but for a player who's been excellent when healthy and has suffered two non-career-altering injuries, the Oden situation is a long way from having proven not to have worked out. As for the question that started this thread: this team is as good as it gets until it gets better. I know that's a tautology, but the question doesn't have a lot of meaning beyond that. If nothing changes, of course this is as good as it gets. If Oden plays 70 games next year, that will be a big change. If Batum plays the whole season, that will be a big change. If Bayless or Fernandez make the leap to consistent force, that will be a big change. If a team dumps a Pau Gasol type of player on Portland, that will be a big change. In view of how many things can change in the next year or few years, what other answer is there but that this is as good as it gets until and unless it gets better?
I'm not surmising him to become anything. It is really simple. Oden will either become a consistent force, or he won't. - If he doesn't, then yes, we will not be good enough to seriously contend for championships. So, this IS about as good as THIS team gets. - If he does become the consistent force, we will be seriously contending for championships, as was evidenced before he went down.
Yes... this is an argument both against the "let it bake" argument (since a LOT can go wrong in 4 or 5 years) but it's also a death blow to the position that this team--even without Oden--cannot improve. I think that Oden is the key, as you do, but I think that even without him, we can be a contender. If we can get a (healthy) Camby or Joel in their prime to plug into the five spot, then I think that Roy and Aldridge and some combination of Batum/Bayless development would make us a HCA-type team every year, and we could contend for titles if things broke just right. Ed O.
What I tried to say is that if Oden had stayed healthy this year he probably would look a lot like Camby does now - great defensive numbers, clogs the middle, mediocre offense. So even with Camby we see a glimpse, a hint, of what the future might look like I think. And if that is true, then this does not look like a team that is a championship team, sorry to say.
I don't think that's true. Camby is a great rebounder and weak side defender. He isn't nearly as good as Oden as a man defender and he doesn't have Oden's offensive presence. Oden is still far from a star offensive performer, but he's hard to stop near the hoop and attracts frequent double-teams. Double-teams in the paint are a godsend to an offense. Even in terms of shot-blocking/shot-altering, Oden brings more. Camby is more of a sniper...comes from the blind side to swat away the shots of the unwary. He's not an intimidating presence in the middle that makes players think twice about going to the hoop or makes players alter their shots due to his being there. Oden can block shots coming from the weak side, but he also makes players wary of driving it toward him.
Championship teams need a big 4, not a big 3. Lakers: Kobe, Gasol, Odom, Bynum (and Artest) Celtics: Garnett, Allen, Pierce, Rondo If you have LMA as one of your big 4, you're doing fine.
Oden draws double-teams. Camby does not. Oden's got a 118 Offensive Rating, while Camby's is 87 with the Blazers. Oden is just a far superior offensive player. And he's YEARS from his prime. I like the Camby pickup and he's a huge upgrade over Howard, but I don't think that a healthy Oden's ceiling is anywhere nearly limited to what the current Marcus Camby is... and a Roy and Aldridge should get better, too, along with the younger guys. Ed O.
Lakers don't have any "tough" in their frontcourt and they won last year. Pau is as soft as they come. And Odom is one of the most inconsistent players in the league. Bynum completely disappears when the chips are on the table.
You've gotta be kidding me. Bynum doesn't qualify as a part of a Big anything. He averaged 6 pts and 4 rebs in the playoffs last year. Also, the Spurs didn't have a big 4 when they won. The Rockets didn't have a big 4 when they won. The Bulls didn't have a big 4 when they won. And the 2000-02 Lakers didn't have a big 4 when they won. Please.
I would really like to package Pryzbilla/Bayless for a PG prospect Conley and a future pick? Something with Rubio (to come over the year after next)? Etc... But I honestly would love to see a roster of this: Miller/Koponen/Mills Roy/Fernandez Batum/Webster Aldridge/Cunningham/Howard Oden/Camby/Pendergraph Get to mature a bit, grow together, develop chemistry, and play consistent minutes. I'm (one of the few) thinking that we have all we need, we just need chemistry, consistency, defined roles, and a bit of motion in the offense. I'm not sure if Mcmillan (or Roy's willingness to play a little more off the ball) can provide that, but our future is still bright.
