If Democrats ignore health-care polls, midterms will be costly

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Denny Crane, Mar 11, 2010.

  1. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,401
    Likes Received:
    25,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    I don't think that necessarily follows. Innovation isn't something you put in a budget, so it isn't something that gets cut from a budget to fund other things (including waste).

    In fact, I'd argue that smaller budgets may lead to greater innovation - if you need to do more with less, you'll try harder to find new solutions than if you have unlimited funds. Therefore, government waste drives innovation :)

    barfo
     
  2. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,401
    Likes Received:
    25,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    Uhm... I'm not sure I see the point of that comparison. The purpose of the military budget isn't to "service" the servicepeople. The soldiers in your example would correspond to the health care bureaucrats in a government run health care plan, and I don't think there would be quite 250 million of those.

    Nor do I see how those numbers imply much of anything about innovation.

    barfo
     
  3. ABM

    ABM Happily Married In Music City, USA!

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    31,865
    Likes Received:
    5,785
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Commercial Real Estate
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    That is, unless (pre) innovation falls under the heading of R&D.
     
  4. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,401
    Likes Received:
    25,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    That is a fair point - I agree government R&D could be impacted by wasteful spending. Although I suspect that waste, or lack thereof, isn't actually a big factor in setting the R&D budgets - political priorities appear to me to be a vastly bigger influence.

    barfo
     
  5. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    That after paying for 2.5M people, there's a lot of money left to pay for innovation (and $800 hammers and $5,000 toilet seats).
     
  6. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,401
    Likes Received:
    25,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    Right, so you are agreeing with me that government run health care would not stifle innovation?

    barfo
     
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Not at all.

    They're going to spend 150% of the money they think they are on anything but innovation.

    There's not going to be $100B to invent the next jet fighter (equivalent) for health care.
     
  8. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    28,007
    Likes Received:
    5,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    retired Yankee
    Location:
    Beautiful Central Oregon
    So pretty much the political equivalent of Shareef Abdul-Rahim. :biglaugh:
     
  9. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    He's a pollster. I'm sure he told those losers they were losers.
     
  10. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,401
    Likes Received:
    25,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    Luckily, health care innovations don't cost $100B, nor are they funded by health insurance companies. So if government "takes over" health care insurance, I'm not sure I see the impact on innovation.

    barfo
     
  11. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    They do cost $100B.

    Healthcare investment outpaces IT investment for the first time




    (That's for just one year of venture capital, doesn't include R&D)
     
  12. blazerboy30

    blazerboy30 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,465
    Likes Received:
    423
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I'm working with the assumption that greater incentive leads to greater innovation. Do you disagree with that, in general?
     
  13. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    28,007
    Likes Received:
    5,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    retired Yankee
    Location:
    Beautiful Central Oregon
    The bulk of those opposed to the health reformless bill are opposed because it has been over-compromised to the point of impotence.

    While the Dems will suffer for not supporting the President and the people, the Reps will suffer hand-in-hand with them for offering no solution and no cooperation at all.

    3rd parties have an enormous oportunity coming up in 2012.
     
  14. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,401
    Likes Received:
    25,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    It's also not $100B, it's $7.7B, and it's healthcare VC money, total, for the year. Now you are suggesting that VC money will dry up if the government spends more money than it planned to on the uninsured???

    barfo
     
  15. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,401
    Likes Received:
    25,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    Agreed. They'll fail to capitalize though, just like they always do.

    barfo
     
  16. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,401
    Likes Received:
    25,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    I don't disagree with that generally. However, it isn't an on-off switch.

    If I raise the reward for building a better mousetrap from $1 trillion to $1.001 trillion, it won't matter because everyone will already be working on the better mousetrap as hard as they can. Likewise if I lower the incentive by a tenth of a percent it does not follow that everyone will quit working on mousetraps and go flip burgers instead.

    barfo
     
  17. Sug

    Sug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,991
    Likes Received:
    55
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Fuck the polls. Fuck the cost of the 2010 elections. The citizens of this country elected Obama and the Dems to pass healthcare, and when they do there is a good chance they will gain a ton of mojo as well. Worrying about polls is what got us to having a terrible government in the first place because all the parties are worried about is holding office. Do your job.
     
  18. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    They elected him because he's not GW Bush, and that is all there is to it.
     
  19. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2009
    Messages:
    30,672
    Likes Received:
    8,852
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    retired, while you work!
    If you've read the objective news media for a few presidencies, you'll notice a coincidence in history. It's strange. When a Republican is elected President, polls are just politics, because elections are the hard count. When a Democrat is elected President, the next election will spell his doom, because polls show an angry anti-incumbent mood. It's the liberal media at work again.
     
  20. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,401
    Likes Received:
    25,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    Some people claimed that old what's-his-name wasn't GW Bush either, but he and his creepy sidekick weren't elected even so. Pretty sure Hillary wasn't GW Bush, too.

    McCain. McCain was his name.

    barfo
     

Share This Page