Re: ESPN's List <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%">1.Magic Johnson</span>The player: The prototype big point guard. The only player in NBA history who could dominate -- not just play -- all five positions. Magic was the best ever in transition. He led the break and shoved the ball down your throat or backed you down and carved you up with a pass or drive. He was unselfish -- but not to a fault (he'd take over and score when necessary) -- and he made passing cool. Given his age (a rookie at age 20), the stakes (NBA Finals), the opponent (Dr. J and the 76ers) and the fact that he moved to center to replace injured legend Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Magic's 42-point, 15-rebound, 7-assist, 3-steal effort in the title-clinching Game 6 of the 1980 NBA Finals was probably the best individual performance of all time. It could be argued that he's the one player in NBA history who was better than Michael Jordan.2.Oscar RobertsonThe player: The gold standard, two decades ahead of his time. Oscar was one of the smartest players ever. There has never been a better post-up guard. We hear about "The Big O" averaging a triple-double for one season (1961-62), but he actually averaged a triple-double over the first five seasons of his career (1960-65) when the games are strung together. In those 384 games, he averaged an astounding 30.3 points, 10.6 assists and 10.4 rebounds. 3.Isiah ThomasThe player: He was the smallest and baddest of the Bad Boys. He was an absolute killer on the court with as much heart, will and toughness as playing ability. Isiah willed his team to a championship level. He was at his best when it counted -- in the playoffs. Against New York in the 1984 playoffs he scored 16 points in the last 94 seconds of regulation to send Game 5 into overtime.4.John StocktonThe player: His durability, toughness, leadership, poise, efficiency, vision and longevity were phenomenal. Stockton might be the most deceptive point guard ever. All-time leader in assists and steals, with a .515 shooting percentage. Very efficient. Sustained excellence overcomes the absence of rings. The Stockton-Malone pick-and-roll will be the measuring stick for years to come. 5.Bob CousyThe player: Cousy was ahead of his time with his ballhandling and passing skills. He won more championships than any other point guard and was one of only four point guards to win MVP. The guy who made it all click for the NBA's greatest dynasty ever. 6.Walt FrazierThe player: Perhaps the best defensive point guard of all time. He was also a great scorer, rebounder, assist man and floor general. A true team player, but when he needed to take over he did. In Game 7 of the 1970 Finals against Wilt, West and the Lakers, he notched 36 points, 19 assists and 5 steals to make up for a hobbled Willis Reed. No one did it better with more style and grace on the world's greatest stage.7.Jason KiddThe player: A brilliant passer -- his 9.2 assists per game average trail only Magic, Stockton and Oscar. He's a terrific leader and intelligent competitor. Can beat an opponent in so many ways without scoring a point. J-Kidd is able to do precisely the right thing at the right time at the right place. 8.Tiny ArchibaldThe player: A candidate for title of most dominant "little guy" ever. As the first point guard to make scoring his emphasis, Tiny was the only player ever to lead the league in scoring and assists in the same season (34 and 11.4, 1972-73). Awesome individual talent who had a lot of A.I. in him early in his career. Invented penetration.9.Steve NashThe player: His performance over the last two years in Phoenix has put him in this elite category. He's the only point guard other than Magic to win back-to-back MVPs. Takes the "makes players around him better" tag to a whole new level. Has the ability to make entire teams adjust to his style of play. 10. Gary PaytonThe player: More swagger than a gunslinger. As a lockdown defender nicknamed "The Glove," he's one of the few point guards in Frazier's class defensively. Great scorer who could run a team and, when necessary, put the club on his back. Break down his career and you'll conclude he's been underrated.</div> LinkThis is there list of players. I somewhat agree. I dont really agree with the top of the list though. I just think John Stockton is getting robbed. My List:1.John Stockton2.Magic Johnson3.Oscar Robertson4.Bob Cousy5.Isiah Thomas6.Tiny Archibald7.Walt Frazier8.Jason Kidd9.Gary Payton10. Steve Nash
Re: ESPN's List Steve Nash? Are these guys retarded? Steve Nash needs to learn to play defense, and to me i think it is the system of the suns, not Nash.
Re: ESPN's List Steve needs to have a couple more MVP caliber years for him to be top 10 IMO.1. Magic2. Oscar3. Isiah4. Stockton5. Frazier6. Cousy7. Kidd8. Archibald9. Payton10. Tim Hardaway
Re: ESPN's List Winning two MVP's in a row puts you on that list no matter what. Nash was good in Dallas as well.Stockton should have been ahead of Thomas IMO.KJ isn't far off that list either.
Re: ESPN's List <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ May 11 2006, 03:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Steve needs to have a couple more MVP caliber years for him to be top 10 IMO.1. Magic2. Oscar3. Isiah4. Stockton5. Frazier6. Cousy7. Kidd8. Archibald9. Payton10. Tim Hardaway</div>I agree with that list. I forgot all about Hardaway, he was so good back in the day. Was it him or Penny Hardaway that had sugery, which ruined his career.
Re: ESPN's List Penny was never the same when he came back from his surgery. I don't recall Timmy Hardaway ever having a really bad injury, but I could be wrong.
Re: ESPN's List Oh I wish PrimeTime could see this. Note the positions of Cousy and Payton.This list is way off though. How is Isaiah ahead of Stockton?
Re: ESPN's List <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lakaboy42 @ May 11 2006, 06:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If Oscar Robertson is gonna be considered a point guard, then AI should be too.</div>Iverson played SG for most of his career, and he isn't a true PG. Robertson is more of a PG than Iverson.
Re: ESPN's List <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo_061 @ May 11 2006, 06:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Steve nash over Gary payton?My goodness </div>Exactly. I think GP should be #5-7. One of the best PG's of all time when talking about offense/defense combo.
Re: ESPN's List <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JustBlaze @ May 11 2006, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Iverson played SG for most of his career, and he isn't a true PG. Robertson is more of a PG than Iverson.</div>Robertson also played SG for most of his career.I think he was good but not in the list with those people,all the people on that list made there people better,while Robertson was more of a shoot first,Gilbert Arenas type of guy.
Re: ESPN's List <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ May 11 2006, 07:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Robertson also played SG for most of his career.I think he was good but not in the list with those people,all the people on that list made there people better,while Robertson was more of a shoot first,Gilbert Arenas type of guy.</div>He also has a career average of 9.5 APG, so he deserves the spot over Iverson.
Re: ESPN's List Yes, he was one of the most complete players ever and probably one of the most underrated of all time also.
Re: ESPN's List To many one liners guys.Walt Frazier should be much higher.A top 5 point guard of all time in my opinion. He was such a great scorer and playmaker that people overlook the fact that he was a top notch defender as well. One of the greatest defensive guards in league history.He was the best player on one of the best teams in history. He dominated Jerry West in the 1970 NBA finals. He frustrated West with his tough defense and unstoppable jump shot.Frazier had one of the best stat lines in NBA history. In game 7 of the 1970 NBA finals against the great Laker team that consisted of Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, and Wilt Chamberlian. Frazier scored 39 points, dished out 19 assists, and had 5 steals. Just his points and assists alone combined for 77 of his teams total pointsThose great numbers are overshadowed because of the great heroics of Willis Reed who surprised the world by limping onto the court with a major leg injury. Had this been any other night people would still be talking about Fraziers amazing performance.
Re: ESPN's List <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ May 11 2006, 11:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Robertson also played SG for most of his career.I think he was good but not in the list with those people,all the people on that list made there people better,while Robertson was more of a shoot first,Gilbert Arenas type of guy.</div> Allen Iverson should always be considered a SG, Oscar Robertson played most of his career at PG and should always be considered a PG.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JustBlaze @ May 11 2006, 11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He did average triple doubke for 2 seasons. The point is that he should be on there.</div> Oscar averaged a triple double in one season.
Re: ESPN's List Yeah, the Big O only averaged a triple-double in one season officially, but in another season he was 0.1 rebounds away from averaging another triple-double.He could have quite possibly averaged a triple-double for four years of his career.
