Kobe Bryant. He could do so much more offensively, and he was/is still a very good defender. Kobe also didn't play alongside the best player in history to win some rings, albeit he did it with Shaq.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nba dogmatist @ May 13 2006, 04:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe Bryant. He could do so much more offensively, and he was/is still a very good defender. Kobe also didn't play alongside the best player in history to win some rings, albeit he did it with Shaq.</div>While I am unsure of what I think of the matter at this time, your argument certainly makes no sense. Scottie Pippen was a superioir defender, guarding the opposing team's best player night in and night out, and dong it better than Kobe. And Kobe Bryant happened to play with Shaq, a player who many think is AT LEAST Top 10 ever.
I'm going with Pippen. Even without Jordan he took the knicks to 7 games in 1994. That is if we are talking Pippen's prime to Kobe's prime. Pippen is a great defender, great slasher, and can play point forward.
Scottie Pippen. first, in a one on one pippy would shut down kobe completely. Two Pippen can play the point forward.
This SHOULD be so easy its not even funny. Kobe is so much more talented than Pippen ever was. Kobe has the ability to score 50 points every single night and he is also a very good defender. He was elected first team this year. I admit, Scottie is one of the best perimeter defenders of all time but Kobe is still a great defender. You also have to remember that the best perimeter defender on every team was guarding michael jordan which means that scottie had an easier ride than kobe does who gets doubled every single game. Its got to be kobe, hands down.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fabolous @ May 13 2006, 04:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Scottie Pippen. first, in a one on one pippy would shut down kobe completely. Two Pippen can play the point forward.</div>r u kidding? even with pippen being one of the best defenders of all time, kobe would still drop 30 on him every night.
The minute you said this would be easy ballerman2112, your post was discredited. First off, the scoring aspect of this is easy. Kobe is a much better scorer now, and in all honesty has always been. Pippen averaged 16 PPG, to Kobe's 24. At the peak of their respective careers, Kobe averaged a steller 35 PPG, while Pippen's best was 22PPG. In terms of arsenal, Kobe has a better three point jumpshot, midrange jumpshot, and turnaround jumper. He is not as good a finisher as Scottie, but the difference isn't apparent enough to mean anything. Kobe is a better scorer, no debate required!Now for other categories ignorant Laker fans will overlook. As a defender, Scottie was much better than Kobe. While Kobe steals the ball and turns up his defense with 3 minutes remaining in a game, Scottie Pippen gave it to you all game. He was a great defender everytime he stepped on court. His 10 All-Defensive appearences are that much more incredible, because during the 90s, defenses were so good. Scottie however, still found a way to stand out, and become a Top 5 defender in that period. Kobe on the other hand, has trouble being recognized as one of the best defenders today, in an era of horrible and inconsistent defense. Pippen was a much better defender, simply because he did it consistently.Pippen was also a better passer. In his career, he averaged 5.2 APG to Kobe's 4.5. Both were second options in the same offense, under the same coach, with good teams, and Scottie simply passed the ball better. In terms of rebounding, Scottie was a better rebounder, averaging 6.4 RPG to Kobe's 5.1. He did it better both offensively, and defensively. I'll state it again, both players started each shot attempt from the same spot, meaning they were in the same circumstance to rebound. Scottie simply did it better.In terms of clutch play, Kobe is much better than Scottie. I can't recall Scottie making a single game winner in his career, whereas Kobe... Well, is Kobe. So in conclusion, Kobe is a much better scorer in terms of arsenal, deep shot, and clutch. However, Scottie is a much more consistent defender, better rebounder, and better passer. In terms of accomplishments, Kobe has won 3 rings, and set two significant records. While Scottie has set no records, he has won 6 championships. Both have been the second option most of their career, and Scottie led his team farther when he was given a season and a half to be a first option.In terms of leadership, Scottie listened, talked, and stayed cool on a consistent basis. He had that one moment where he refused to enter a game, but then again, Kobe did throw a TV at Lamar Odom and then question why he wasn't confident. Pippen was the better leader, simply because he listened. I've seen Kobe scream at hsi teammates, ignore his coach, and lose complete confidence in teammates. Scottie never did that.In conclusion, I think Scottie gets a slight edge because of his ability to win, and his leadership
Kmart, how can you pick Pippen because of his ability to win, when in your own words Kobe was more clutch?Also you use those stats to show that Pippen was a better passer and rebpunder than Kobe, but the assists are not that far apart at all, especially when you look at the amount of points Kobe is putting up compared to Pippen. Pippen got a little higher rankings on the rebounds but he playedS SF not SG. I would say that the majority of small forwards would get more boards than SG's.
I think Kobe is better overall. Pippen was the better defender, and a solid scorer, but Kobe can create his own shots at will, and that is something Scottie couldn't do as well. Kobe also is a good defender, not as good as Scottie but good.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ May 13 2006, 02:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>r u kidding? even with pippen being one of the best defenders of all time, kobe would still drop 30 on him every night.</div>by shooting 12-47...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KMart @ May 13 2006, 07:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The minute you said this would be easy ballerman2112, your post was discredited. First off, the scoring aspect of this is easy. Kobe is a much better scorer now, and in all honesty has always been. Pippen averaged 16 PPG, to Kobe's 24. At the peak of their respective careers, Kobe averaged a steller 35 PPG, while Pippen's best was 22PPG. In terms of arsenal, Kobe has a better three point jumpshot, midrange jumpshot, and turnaround jumper. He is not as good a finisher as Scottie, but the difference isn't apparent enough to mean anything. Kobe is a better scorer, no debate required!Now for other categories ignorant Laker fans will overlook. As a defender, Scottie was much better than Kobe. While Kobe steals the ball and turns up his defense with 3 minutes remaining in a game, Scottie Pippen gave it to you all game. He was a great defender everytime he stepped on court. His 10 All-Defensive appearences are that much more incredible, because during the 90s, defenses were so good. Scottie however, still found a way to stand out, and become a Top 5 defender in that period. Kobe on the other hand, has trouble being recognized as one of the best defenders today, in an era of horrible and inconsistent defense. Pippen was a much better defender, simply because he did it consistently.Pippen was also a better passer. In his career, he averaged 5.2 APG to Kobe's 4.5. Both were second options in the same offense, under the same coach, with good teams, and Scottie simply passed the ball better. In terms of rebounding, Scottie was a better rebounder, averaging 6.4 RPG to Kobe's 5.1. He did it better both offensively, and defensively. I'll state it again, both players started each shot attempt from the same spot, meaning they were in the same circumstance to rebound. Scottie simply did it better.In terms of clutch play, Kobe is much better than Scottie. I can't recall Scottie making a single game winner in his career, whereas Kobe... Well, is Kobe. So in conclusion, Kobe is a much better scorer in terms of arsenal, deep shot, and clutch. However, Scottie is a much more consistent defender, better rebounder, and better passer. In terms of accomplishments, Kobe has won 3 rings, and set two significant records. While Scottie has set no records, he has won 6 championships. Both have been the second option most of their career, and Scottie led his team farther when he was given a season and a half to be a first option.In terms of leadership, Scottie listened, talked, and stayed cool on a consistent basis. He had that one moment where he refused to enter a game, but then again, Kobe did throw a TV at Lamar Odom and then question why he wasn't confident. Pippen was the better leader, simply because he listened. I've seen Kobe scream at hsi teammates, ignore his coach, and lose complete confidence in teammates. Scottie never did that.In conclusion, I think Scottie gets a slight edge because of his ability to win, and his leadership</div>Youre just a biast retard man, Scottie was the better finisher? Please. No seriously, please. Cut the dumb talk. Kobe Bryant while many forget is one of the league's best perimeter defenders. He was inferior to Pippen, but Kobe has still received 6 NBA all defensive team awards. Kobe is way more clutch, has won rings (with shaq though) also and 20 x the better scorer. and kobe was probably a better rebounder.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Kmart, how can you pick Pippen because of his ability to win, when in your own words Kobe was more clutch?</div>THere's a difference. Pippen had more success as the second option in the regular season and playoffs than Kobe, hence, the better winner. Kobe however, has hit many more gamewinners, and played better int he playoffs. However, just cause he's played better and hit some late-game shots, doesn't mean he's won mroe than Scottie, does it?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Also you use those stats to show that Pippen was a better passer and rebpunder than Kobe, but the assists are not that far apart at all, especially when you look at the amount of points Kobe is putting up compared to Pippen. Pippen got a little higher rankings on the rebounds but he playedS SF not SG. I would say that the majority of small forwards would get more boards than SG's.</div>SFs and SGs begin plays from each corner of the wing a majority of the time. Therefore, a majority of the time, both are in the same position to rebound the basketball. If you are a basketball player, you should know what I am talking about. And through your reasoning, Stephon Marbury and Steve Francis are great passers because they score 20 and dish out 8 a night. Are they really good passers? Anyone who watches them knows, they are not. Scottie Pippen played the same role as Kobe a majority of his career, and averaged more assists with a comparable supporting cast. Kobe gets assists because he attacks and goes for it at unnecassary times, and it produces passing opportunities. Socttie on the other hand, got more assists in the flow of the offense, much mroe impressive
don't use the stats about assists if you are talking about the 'type of assists' that each players gets then.Kobe hasn't always been the number 1 option though has he? He is alot better than Pippen was as the go to guy, but when he was playing behind Shaq he didn't do too bad either did he?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AirBlaze @ May 13 2006, 07:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Youre just a biast retard man, Scottie was the better finisher? Please. No seriously, please. Cut the dumb talk. Kobe Bryant while many forget is one of the league's best perimeter defenders. He was inferior to Pippen, but Kobe has still received 6 NBA all defensive team awards. Kobe is way more clutch, has won rings (with shaq though) also and 20 x the better scorer. and kobe was probably a better rebounder.</div>If you are such a big Kobe fan, you should know he is not close to the defender Pippen was. Pippen guarded the oppositions best player night in and night out, whereas against Phoenix for example, Kobe guarded Raja Bell. The only reason Kobe gets credit is because he turns up his defense with 3 minutes left to go in the game, whereas as Scottie brings it all night long. Pippen was a much better defender than Kobe, simply because he was consistent.And you have to use your reading skills. I said Kobe was more clutch and a much better scorer. However, Pippen was the better rebounder. Both have played similar minutes throughout their careers, yet Pippen has found a way to grab more rebounds. He is the better rebounder. Don't just throw out a random "Kobe is probably a better rebounder" if you haven't taken the time to read my post.So, in that one post you have lost all respect from myself. Without even reading my opinions and considering them, you immediately assumed to call me biased, even though you are clearly a Kobe lover. You didn't even take the time to look anything up, and threw out a random comment (Kobe is a 20x better scorer, is probably a better rebounder) in order to make me look dumb, and to make you look better. If there is one thing I've learned in my many debates, it's this:<span style="color:#FF0000">In a debate, the first person to throw out an insult, harsh or not, has admitted defeat, and lost.</span>You my friend, threw out an insult after one post, showing that you clearly have nothing better to do than make yourself look foolish, and a waste of time. <span style="color:#FF0000">Think before you post, consider before you argue, and remind yourself that if you indeed want to argue with someone, you have to do it with more maturity than an ignorant 12 year old.</span><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>don't use the stats about assists if you are talking about the 'type of assists' that each players gets then.</div>I don't understand. Please rephrase?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe hasn't always been the number 1 option though has he? He is alot better than Pippen was as the go to guy, but when he was playing behind Shaq he didn't do too bad either did he?</div>No he hasn't, and neither has Pippen! This makes for an ideal argument. In the year Pippen was the #1 option, he proved to be a superioir leader to Kobe Bryant, and a consistent performer. In the two years Kobe has been a #1 option, he has proved to be inconsistent in all facets in the game: Inconsistent offensively, inconsistent defensively, inconsistent as a leader.And like I said, read my post. I clearly stated that although Kobe's 3 Championships as a second option were great, Pippen's 6 Championships as a second option were better
Kobe. When it's all said in done he will go down with the likes of Jordan. Scottie Pippen was a good player but would never be as good without Jordan. Plus, Kobe still has years to go so you don't even know what Kobe still has in the tank.
In terms of leadership, Scottie listened, talked, and stayed cool on a consistent basis. He had that one moment where he refused to enter a game, but then again, Kobe did throw a TV at Lamar Odom and then question why he wasn't confident. Pippen was the better leader, simply because he listened. I've seen Kobe scream at hsi teammates, ignore his coach, and lose complete confidence in teammates. Scottie never did that.1- Kobe bryant did not throw a television at Odom, they got into a verbal spat.2- What happens when sasha goes and hits a 3? Who comes to him and gives him a high 5 or a chest bump? Who goes to odom after he gets a critical offensive board and gives him a chest bump? Who's the guy who after Smush came up with a huge defensive play went up to him and told him what that meant? Who's the guy this season who credited Odom and Kwame for being important and a key to the season even though they were playing the worst basketball of his career? This doesn't mean kobe doesnt yell at his teamates but for everytime he yells [which i haven't see him do for a while], he gives them their props when needed.Pippen listened? Is pippen not the guy who refused to come back into the game because a clutch play was set for Kucoc? Isn't pippen the guy who got traded from houston because he was causing turmoil in the team? My ass he listened, he was an arrogant prick also. Also, when you know you're playing with GOAT and you know you're severly inferior, you know you should sit back.And how can you blame Kobe for odom's play? Do you even know why odom started playing well? Phil told him to attack more basically. And he did. Odom consistently used to pass the ball to kobe and just watch and phil told him to cut down on it. And he did.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo_061 @ May 14 2006, 05:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Pippen listened? Is pippen not the guy who refused to come back into the game because a clutch play was set for Kucoc? Isn't pippen the guy who got traded from houston because he was causing turmoil in the team? My ass he listened, he was an arrogant prick also.</div>KMart acknowledged that Pippen refused to enter the game, and said that was his sole act of "disobedience" against Phil Jackson. Also, why are we talking about Pippen in Houston when everybody else is comparing Scottie's transition to being the first option to Kobe's transition? Houston has nothing to do with it.I can see where KMart is choosing Scottie over Kobe, and in a sense he is correct. It really depends on how you look at it. For me, if I'm looking at the two and comparing solely their individual skills and talents, I'd choose Kobe. If I'm choosing who fit better in the triangle offense and who was the better facilitator in that offense, I'd choose Scottie.Regardless, KMart has really been the superior debater throughout this entire thread.
Why are we comparing to incredibly different players??? Scottie Pippen was a great all around player and a great role player. Kobe Bryant is a great scorer and has to have all the spotlight. IMO you can't compare two players that are this different.
You cannot compare Bryant and Pippen..For most of Kobe's career, the offense was based on having a dominant C, whereas Pippen had a dominant SF. That sharp difference right there might make Scottie Pippen more likely to have less people in the paint for lack of a true dominant inside man. Kobe Bryant always had Shaq, his defender, Shaq's defender and another player who was keeping an eye on Shaq and collapsing on Bryant all the time...Kobe Bryant has always been an elite scorer and a good defender. While I myself don't see how he gets 1st team ALL-NBA on defense, I know that if he tries he can be one of the best. He does not try but he can be a shutdown defender. Okay, Bryant is better on offense, worse on defense and as a leader I cannot tell. Scottie Pippen always had good players around him..look at the Lakers roster and don't tell me that compares to the Bulls.At this point in Kobe's career, you can't make comparison because it's not done yet...how can you tell how his game will evolve and change? In the end both will be top 50 players of all time and hall of famers...
