Re: Hunter Wants To See LeBron In Chicago Lindsey's going to get fired for saying stuff like that. He's not on the same page as the organization.
JustinWeiner: LeBron to Chicago http://weinerswords.wordpress.com/2010/05/19/lebron-to-chicago-say-it-is-so/ Highland Park - I have heard through a reliable source that LeBron was seen looking for houses Monday in Highland Park, IL. He was seen entering one of two Range Rovers parked outside a house with a ‘for sale’ sign. If anyone is unfamiliar with the Chicagoland area, that location would be roughly 10-20 minutes away from the Berto Center in Deerfield where the Bulls practice. Coincidence? I think not. Obviously, there can be no official negotiations between teams and prospective free agents until the July 1 date, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be under the table talks. I’m not a betting man, but this would be one of those rare occasions where I would throw some money on LeBron wearing number six in a Bulls uniform in the fall of 2010.
Read how Hollinger uses these numbers in picking the best NBA defenders in 2010. http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-100406 Could this be any clearer? Hollinger says you have to watch the games. Hollinger sure as hell wouldn't endorse taking some blend of advanced stats from seasons that are 20+ years apart and declaring that as the definitive answer. I doubt any well-known, credible basketball statistician would say that. But feel free to find one that does.
p.s. Look at how the on-court, off-court number correlated with Hollinger's picks in his first, second and third team picks. On his first team, he picked the guy with the best stats once, the 2nd best stats once and the worst (out of the three) stats three times.
Here's a note from hollinger, he says one single measure (PER alone for example), would not be a complete picture. But combining methods is what he does, not add some random subjective analysis. Often his ideas are supported by another statistical measure, like defensive win shares. Over the course of an entire career, it is unlikely that one would have a poor understanding of their contributions. Remember we're not analyzing from just one perspective, or from just one year. 82games.com has shown LeBron's clear dominance in this era over other phenomenal seasons. I haven't even gotten to that website yet. Here is the rest of his picks last year for example: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090415 Defensive rating measured over a long period of time, takes into account the contributions of teammates and awards shares accordingly. Because Jordan played with Rodman, and Pippen (who has a slightly higher defensive win share peak than Jordan, attained during Jordan's retirement), it should be somewhat obvious why he doesn't rank as highly as you might think. I'm sure Jordan was an excellent defender, but so is the King and without as much help.
I think this will be helpful. http://www.basketball-reference.com...&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=dws http://www.basketball-reference.com...&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=dws The top picks usually fall into place here. It seems DWS might be more accurate than Stat +/- in various cases.
Dude, do you know the difference between indicator and determinant? Great, Lebron improved. Where is he at? On Hollinger's 2nd defensive team this year. From my above link. Not bad...but MJ was an excellent help defender, on-the ball defender and transition defender.
MJ and LeBron would have lost to Wallace almost any season of their careers, if they were competing for the last spot on a defensive team. This is why you need to clink on my links. LeBron was third in defensive win shares, guess who was second overall, and first team? http://www.basketball-reference.com...&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=dws Thanks for playing. MJ was the second best defender on his team, various nights. And also second comparing peaks. Are you also going to criticize LeBron for not being a better defender than Dwight Howard? Hollinger's analysis validates me further.
LeBron Isn't House Hunting In Chicago There is no truth to rumors that LeBron James is house hunting in Highland Park, writes the Chicago Tribune. Rumors swirled that James was looking for real estate in Chicago, with some even suggesting he was doing so with Michael Jordan. Matt Silver, an Evanston real estate agent, told the Tribune that he does not believe the rumors. "I got about 20 text messages today from about six or eight agents, who were like, 'Are you working with (James)?' I said: 'What are you talking about?' " Silver said. "I am pretty quiet about stuff (involving celebs). But there are lots of people in my profession who can't keep their mouth shut." http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...t-0520-around-town--20100519,0,7491657.column
Why do I need to click on links showing defensive win shares for individual seasons when Hollinger says "Despite all that's been done with numbers over the past decade or so, this remains an inherently subjective exercise" Look...Pippen and MJ are both better defenders than Lebron. If Bill Russel were on the team, then there would be 3 better defenders. Besides MJ was DPOY (at 24) which Pippen never was and made more 1st team all-defense teams. Seems to me it confirms my observation his help-defense ain't that great.
Gerald Wallace was the second best defender in the NBA, there's no way around it. Where does Hollinger say, MJ was a better defender than LeBron in 2009? Hollinger doesn't approve of your analysis. How is Hollinger agreeing with me in this instance, disproving anything? Why are you trying to be misleading though? Pippen is a better defender. Gerald Wallace > MJ on defense almost any season, don't forget. Wallace's defensive dominance is measured by defensive rating (cleaning up the glass, not allowing points when on the court, etc.) and thus, win shares. Dwight, and the elite winners have always shown up in DWS. Adjusted plus/minus is not what I have been talking about this entire thread, that's why I and BBR use WS for the most part. LeBron's defensive rating went up from 99 to 102, and so he fell to #3 in the league. It correlates perfectly with Wallace's praise. Let's clarify something, post defense is most important in the NBA. http://www.basketball-reference.com...&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=dws Hakeem should have probably won that DPOY in 88, by the way. He's certainly got a better track record through his career on defense and beat MJ that year slightly. Defensive teams are reputation awards, it doesn't matter what awards MJ had. Oh and LeBron has a slightly higher peak than 88 Hakeem. Hollinger says not to trust the Defensive teams voted on in the NBA, because they lag behind reality and are vague. If you don't use advanced numbers, MJ looks even worse on defense. He played against teams that played much faster than the Phoenix Suns, and he gave up a lot more points than LeBron. Ignore these numbers at your own risk. Russell, played in an era I don't personally like. A significant percentage of the league was not integrated, so I wouldn't bring that up. I don't care what Russell did, I'd like to stick to MJ and LeBron preferably. Further Pippen was the MJ on defense, Jordan was the Pippen on D. ;] Pippen was a better defender, and he did it when Jordan was retired. Playing with highly talented defenders is going to take credit away from MJ. It shows that second place is higher than third place. As it should be. :] It shows Defensive win shares is a great barometer. Better than APM, that's why BBR likes it, as do I.
I'm done here. Hollinger says there is a huge subjective component to D. In his first four books which I pulled off my shelves last night, Hollinger never wrote a major article comparing greats using advanced stats on O, let alone D. You don't seem to understand his viewpoint. You are still basing everything off stats. You have clearer never seen these guys play.
Wow that's a lie, Hollinger just compared LeBron's peak PER to Jordan's PER just a few weeks ago. Mentioned the best two year stretch of PER. PER = To be used to compare any era. That's why it has a league average component. You clearly don't understand the purpose of it. This is how I have interpreted your argument: Jordan is a better defender because you say so? Not even an attempt to look at any figures? That's not how an objective analysis is done, sir. The rest of your hypothesis, is that "he won DPOY", as if Hollinger would support that notion automatically. Hakeem is a better defender than Jordan, within the same season. Hollinger doesn't believe in defensive teams so I have no idea what your argument is. It isn't just to say, Jordan is a better defender than LeBron in 2009. He has never said this to my knowledge. Sorry he just did a few weeks ago. It was on Yahoo, and ESPN of course. "Best all time 2 year PER stretch". Hollinger will tell you personally that Michael has never had a post-season like LeBron. You used the second best defender in the NBA, to question why he is above the third best defender? Even limiting the analysis to one season doesn't support you. I don't need to use Adjusted plus minus, and the best defenders in the history of the league do indeed correlate with DWS. You need to pull out some of those other books again. Your specific random analysis, biased subjective whatever you want to call it, is bad dude. Tell me where in this thread I used APM anyway. It is probably my least favorite stat because it lacks the "share" part in win shares. DWS is a staple on basketball-reference, APM is much more of a team stat. DWS accounts for teammates.
Why are we focused on just Hollinger by the way? A true great will excel in virtually ANY barometer, from any statistician. That's why basketball-reference is superior, it uses an assortment of tests. Notice, this is how you analyze defense: http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=4516 http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5382 Defensive Stops, rebounding, blocks, steals which lead to 1.02 points per possession, on/off, and durability.
No, it's not a lie. It's a factual statement. Hollinger wrote 4 books. Here is an example http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Basketbal...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274476647&sr=8-1 I opened up all 4 books and he has articles before he discusses the teams and players. In none of the four books did he compare players across eras in any sort of Top 10 list of all time or ording players from different eras. You are mis-using his stats (;and everyone else's) Best all time 2 year PER stretch <> Best 2 years for any player Let me repeat that: Best all time 2 year PER stretch <> Best 2 years for any player From Hollinger's recent article, maybe the same one http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090324 Even Hollinger thinks you have to win, baby. And stats don't tell all.
No 20 or 30 point halftime lead was safe against those Bulls teams. They had a remarkable ability to stifle opponents with their defense, when they turned it on. The first threepeat team had Jordan, Pippen, and Grant (4x 2nd team all nba defense team). BJ Armstrong was no slouch on D, nor was Bill Cartwright. They brought in Grant and Pippen in previous seasons to play the Doberman Defense - a crushing full court press. The second threepeat team had Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman, any of them could win DPOY in any of those seasons. Ron Harper was praised by announcers, coaches, opposing players, and the press for his prowess at the defensive end. The first championship of that threepeat, 72 wins, they called Gary Payton "the Glove" and Harper "the mitten." The Bulls were first in offensive rating and defensive rating as a team that season. They were 1st and 4th the next season, winning 69 games (Jordan was 33 years old, Pippen 31, Rodman 35, Harper 33).
This isn't just "one" category. This is a variety of categories that LeBron is edging out Jordan, more than just a coincidence. Here's what happened, you're down in the Win Shares argument for a single season (LeBron did it in 95 games, Jordan in 99), career through 25, Playoff prime, Playoff game, Playoff career at this stage, "Defensive player of the year" aka LeBron wins there too, and Hollinger compared LeBron to Jordan using PER with a nice little chart and everything. Add in winning in Single season PER (regular + playoffs), Playoff single season PER, PER value (PER multiplied by minutes) through this point, Defensive rating single season, Defensive rating career. It doesn't matter what books you have, I just provided you with an example from the dude himself. This is precisely a historical analysis. it says exactly what I have claimed. A chart comparing PER, across multiple seasons. Comparison of peaks, etc. From Hollinger's article provided above: ~ "James doesn't lead the league in a single individual category, and his scoring and rebounding numbers are both down from a year ago. Yet when one looks at his accomplishments in total, and adjusts for both his minutes and his team's pace, he's having one of the greatest seasons in league history. it's second only to Jordan in the past 35 years, and if James has a strong closing finish, it could end up as the best. " ~ So is this "not comparing greats using advanced stats"? I just exposed a little lie of yours. He says with great precision we can analyze offense, only some subjective components in Defense. But when you lose various categories, that is damning evidence. Oh and read the defensive article too, it says clearly he uses APM and then defensive rating. You must be skimming through these links, I just quoted JH. :]
Here are links for you to review. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lie http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/expose http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/subjective
