I think pure talen wise he's the greatest player we have ever seen but because Jordan has more titles than Kobe.
First off Jordan didn't face any great defenses like the Pistons or Celtics which is why never lost an NBA Finals. Second you can't bring that into this argument because Kobe was as crucial to those titles if not more crucial than Shaq was because of his clutch shot making, same with Gasol plus when Gasol played soft it was Kobe who carried and elevated that team to the Finals 3 years in a row. If it wasn't for Kobe right now the Lakers would be irelevant right now. You also make it sound like Jordan didn't play with any stars are you kidding me ? He played with Pippen who is a top 50 player off all time and Jordan didn't do shut in the playoffs until Pippen got there. You highly doubt he'll get 6 titles ? When he beats your Celtics this year he'll be one ring away from it. With the team he has now they are the favorite for the next couple of years especially if they get Bosh this summer. Is Jordan the GOAT yeah he is but not by far it's definitely a conversation and you really need to make a better argument than saying Kobe had Shaq and Gasol. Every great payer needs another great player to win titles. 2009 - Kobe and Gasol. 2008 - KG, Pierce, and Ray Allen. 2007 - Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker. 2006 - Wade & Shaq. 2005 - Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker. 2004 - Billups, Sheed, and Big Ben. 2003 - Duncan, Robinson, Ginobli, and Parker. 2000-2002 - Kobe and Shaq 1999 - Duncan and Robinson. 1991 - 1993, 1996-1998 - Jordan and Pippen. 1995 - Dream and Drexler In the last 20 years only 1 team won a title with only having one star and that was the 1994 Rockets.
Kobe's best two years beat Hakeem's best two years in win shares. Kobe had a more dominant playoff run last year than Hakeem ever did. Hakeem Olajuwon is one of the most overrated players because of those title runs. He was very good in the playoffs, he wasn't all-time historic. He was never on Jordan's level statistically. That said Kobe's not on Jordan's level either. But by far neither is Olajuwon.
False. Shaq was the most dominant player in the league for most of Kobe's career. Lebron has been the most dominant player in the league much of the rest of Kobe's career. Jordan was the most dominant player in the game, by far, for a decade. Kobe is a great player. But he isn't close to Jordan.
Best ever??? 1. Wilt 2. Jordan 3. Oscar Kobe's not there yet. By far. He is very good, but not Big Dipper, MJ, or Big O good!!
The basketball version is Wilt vs. Jordan, not Kobe vs. Jordan. And since Kobe is past his prime and never rose to a prime Jordan's level, it's never going to be a legitimate debate, IMO. I agree with those who say that while Jordan was clearly the dominant player of his era, Kobe never was. Other players, like Shaq, Garnett, Duncan in the past and James, Wade and Paul now, were on the same level or better. Kobe was one of a handful of the best players of his generation. Jordan was easily the best player of his generation and arguably the greatest ever.
I see that you failed to read my post, Jordan was easily most dominant cause he did not have much competition during his time, Malone, Stockton, Drexler, Barkley,Ewing, the rest were probably on his team which he had a better overall team than kobe's ever had. And how has James over shadowed kobe's carrer?... the guy is a media darling and has nothing to prove on championship level and is a choker in the big games something kobe isn't. Shaq in the other hand was the most dominant player during his LA carreer, never quite managed to keep the same level. Both of your so called greater than kobe players will be sitting at home watching the NBA finals, probably hoping Kobe doesn't get his 5th ring.
Whats BS about it? Kobe being past his prime? Being a handful of best players? I would say his comments can be taken just as subjectively as your comments.
I stopped reading your post after you said he didn't have competition during his time. You must have Kobe's balls in your eye sockets or something. Defense was much better when Jordan was playing. The rules allowed defenses to be more effective so even if the players weren't as good on defense (which is completely false) the rules would allow those players to be much much more physical with Jordan. You can't touch players on the perimeter these days and it makes for easier scoring. At the end of the day, without Shaq (the most dominant big man of all time) Kobe has 1 ring....Not much to hang your hat on when comparing a career to MICHAEL JORDANS....This isn't even close for so many reasons.
Kobe past his prime ? Have you not seen the playoffs LMAO. When you average 27, 5, and 5 during the season and 30, 5, 5 in the playoffs with a shitload of injuries you are in your prime. Think before you speak kid.
Kobe best player on the planet today, but he's not better or will ever be better than Jordan or Magic.
I see that you admit, Shaq was the most dominant big man of his generation and that I can agree. I like the fact that you somehow ignore the other 3 rings kobe has, because Shaq single-handedly won all games whithout his help...lol you expect me to take that serious?....Then Jordan has no rings, cause he never had pippen, Kukoc, Kerr, Harper, Longley on his team.
There are various stats that adjust for defense. I'm not sure defenses were better, since teams can play zones now and FTs have decreased since 2006. Kobe also had more win shares in the second title run. So he is a very elite leader and impressive player, he's just overstated in the media now.
Disagree Shape, he's certainly in Magic's league, and has reached a similar prime. Kobe is the Magic-level type of winner in this era (I think he wins this year), not the best player though.
I agree Kobe doesn't get his fair share of credit for those championship runs with Shaq. He was doing a lot of the work in the 4th period because Shaq was a liability at the free throw line.
Kobe as a "Clutch" player or shooter is a media myth. There is no factual basis to substantiate this myth. He does take a shitload of "clutch" shots. Thus he can compile a neat video montage of all his big made shots, after editied out all the many, many, many misses - including a whole ton where Kobe forces up bad shots while his open teamates stand around watching.
His numbers weren't that great in two title runs. I can understand why he doesn't always get credit for those.
