Perhaps an explanation why the economy isn't improving under the Messiah

Denny Crane · Jun 9, 2010

Re: Perhaps and explanation why the economy isn't improving under the Messiah

Nixon went to Whittier College and got his law degree from Duke.

bodyman5001 · Jun 9, 2010

Re: Perhaps and explanation why the economy isn't improving under the Messiah

I guess Portland Community College would be the best school I attended, yet I know it should be .......................Perhaps AN explanation. I win.

Suck that one.

Obama isn't fixing anything by the way.

BrianFromWA · Jun 9, 2010

Re: Perhaps and explanation why the economy isn't improving under the Messiah

Stevenson said: ↑

Maxie - For a smart dude, your insistence that the school people graduate from should be the main criterion as to whether they are smart or not is, I suggest, badly misplaced, and hurts your own credibility.

* Ronald Reagan went to Eureka College, and I hate to admit that he was actually one smart SOB

* Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard

* Jimmy Carter was a nuclear engineer, President, and Nobel prize winner. He went to Georgia Southwestern College,and the Georgia Institute of Technology

* Steve Jobs dropped out of Reed

* Oprah went to Tennessee State

* Lee Bolinger, President of Columbia Univ, went to U of O.
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Jimmy Carter matriculated from the Naval Academy and Navy Nuclear Power School. He promptly forgot a bunch of what he learned.

Nate4Prez · Jun 9, 2010

Re: Perhaps and explanation why the economy isn't improving under the Messiah

Economics Question: "Does abortion lower crime rates?"

MARIS61 · Jun 9, 2010

Re: Perhaps and explanation why the economy isn't improving under the Messiah

maxiep said: ↑

maxiep said: ↑

Gee, he has an AB in Econ from the U of C? Gosh, I don't know how I can possibly compete with that, but I'll try. Nate can try to spin, spin, spin, but it won't work. These questions were about basic positions on economic attitudes. What the Liberals did in this survey was imprint their values and ignored economic reality. And I use the word reality purposely. The economic data is overwhelming on the ideas presented here and are taught in every intro econ class, be it from a freshwater or saltwater perspective.

Nice, but no basis to assume any of these questions and their opinionated answers to be based in reality.

As for his other red herrings, Nate can talk about the distribution of voters all he wants, but the numbers of McCain and Obama voters are largely irrelevant. The Law of Large Numbers applies here and the respondents self-identified. Nate can call it "junk science", but only the most extreme answer was considered incorrect. It wasn't an issue of shading; it was black and white.

If by black and white you mean absolute distortion, then yes it's black and white.

Let's review the questions, shall we?

1) "Restrictions on housing development make housing less affordable." Supply and demand. It's a law. It's wonderful to put restrictions on property development, but let's not pretend it's costless.

So vague as to be meaningless. What "restrictions" are referred to? Building safety codes, quality codes, zoning limits, environmental protections, racist discrimination against buyers/renters...? What is meant by "less affordable"? Any savings to the buyer/renter due to less restriction will be eventually paid by him/her in property taxes, home repairs, medical bills, lawsuits, poor property values and quality of life.

2) "Mandatory licensing of professional services increases the prices of those services." If it's more difficult and more expensive to become a professional, it costs more. I know people like to think that making people jump through more hoops shouldn't increase the price of the service, but it does in almost every profession. Physicians and lawyers paid a lot of money to get those degrees, they're going to charge more than Medieval barbers and guys who just like to argue.

Again, the money and lives saved by avoiding charlatans, incompetents and buffoons outweighs any initial lower cost paid.

3) "Overall, the standard of living is higher today than it was 30 years ago." Is empirically true. It may not feel that way to those who want to give ever more to our government, but our standard of living is significantly better, not just a little.

Not in America, unless you're a top 10 per center.

The median American worker is paid roughly 1/8th of what he was paid for the same work in 1963, accounting for inflation and loss of benefits. The average American family now employs 3 members to sustain a standard of living nowhere near what 1 worker sustained in the sixties.

4) "Rent control leads to housing shortages." The liberal may say, "rent control makes things more fair", but limit income/profit and of course you're going to get less product.

Time has proven this to be nonsense. Rent control leads to lower rents.

5) "A company with the largest market share is a monopoly." A monopoly is a company that owns 100% of the market share. Not 90%, not 75%, but 100%. Even a company that holds a 1% market share can dramatically affect the pricing and the market response. Liberals may feel the biggest company is evil because it exerts control on the market, but that doesn't make it a monopoly.

Semantics. A company that controls the market share controls the market. And to a great extent, controls our government.

6) "Third World workers working for American companies overseas are being exploited." Again, this question tugs at the heart of Liberals, without engaging the brain. It demonstrates a default attitude rather than an actual condition.

All workers are exploited. This guy needs to pick up a dictionary sometime. Third World workers working for American companies overseas are being exploited in many ways. Mostly they are exploited to keep American wages and benefits down by skirting basic moral values required by law were they employed in America.

7) "Free trade leads to unemployment." Again, empirically true, even with absolute advantage. Free trade lowers prices, which increases the wealth of a country. More wealth generally leads to more investment, and hence, more jobs. The idea that free trade necessarily leads to unemployment is preposterous.

Maybe you typo'd here, 'cause you're arguing with your own point. But there is no evidence that lower prices make a country wealthy. Maybe you're having trouble separating country from corporation?

8) "Minimum wage laws raise unemployment." Again, it's supply and demand. If you have a finite pool of money, you can only hire so many employees. If you have to pay a higher amount than the market demands, then you have to hire fewer employees.

Only a bad business would have a "finite pool of money". Our capitalistic society of supply and demand gives a good business all the money it needs to fairly reward the employees responsible for it's success. The higher the minimum wage, the higher % of good businesses we have, making our economy stronger. The continual falling of the minimum wage over the last 40 years compared to inflation has been the death of American industry. Made in America used to be what America was proud of. It was why we were once a super power. Any business that even cares what the minimum wage is needs to fail and stop being a deficit to our society.
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All in all, a nearly illiterate compilation of rigged questions and mis-interpreted/distorted conclusions in labeling the answers.
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maxiep · Jun 10, 2010

Re: Perhaps and explanation why the economy isn't improving under the Messiah

Stevenson said: ↑

Maxie - For a smart dude, your insistence that the school people graduate from should be the main criterion as to whether they are smart or not is, I suggest, badly misplaced, and hurts your own credibility.

* Ronald Reagan went to Eureka College, and I hate to admit that he was actually one smart SOB

* Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard

* Jimmy Carter was a nuclear engineer, President, and Nobel prize winner. He went to Georgia Southwestern College,and the Georgia Institute of Technology

* Steve Jobs dropped out of Reed

* Oprah went to Tennessee State

* Lee Bolinger, President of Columbia Univ, went to U of O.
Click to expand...

Stevenson, you misread my sarcasm. Where Mr. Silver earned his undergraduate degree in economics, I earned three graduate degrees in the same field. I love the U of C and think highly of its undergraduate program. I was just making the point that I am well aware of what he was taught. It's no different than if someone stated they could comment on legal issues because they were pre-law at UCLA. I believe that's where you attended law school, IIRC. Would you feel you were in a position to understand what that person may have studied?

I'm well aware that there are all kinds of intelligence that aren't best expressed through their education. Furthermore, someone's credentials do not necessarily connote intelligence. If he had not attended the U of C I wouldn't have made the comment.

maxiep · Jun 10, 2010

Re: Perhaps and explanation why the economy isn't improving under the Messiah

Nate4Prez said: ↑

Economics Question: "Does abortion lower crime rates?"
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If you ask Steve Levitt it does.

TradeNurkicNow · Jun 10, 2010

Re: Perhaps and explanation why the economy isn't improving under the Messiah

I'd appreciate it if you didn't insult my personal lord and savior

maxiep · Jun 10, 2010

Re: Perhaps and explanation why the economy isn't improving under the Messiah

hoojacks said: ↑

I'd appreciate it if you didn't insult my personal lord and savior
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I haven't brought up MIXUM in a couple months.

MikeDC · Jun 14, 2010

Re: Perhaps and explanation why the economy isn't improving under the Messiah

barfo said: ↑

All this poll shows is that the people who filled it out answered a particular way. It's no more scientific, and no more meaningful, than the polls here on S2. And you know it.

barfo
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So you think that people who self-identify as liberals either don't know anything about economics or are a bunch of lying rat fucks who don't know anything about economics. Glad that's settled

MikeDC · Jun 14, 2010

Re: Perhaps and explanation why the economy isn't improving under the Messiah

After reading up a bit, I do think there are problems with the survey, but not the ones being discussed here. Note Bryan Caplan's critique and the response in the original survey writeup:

In commenting on this paper in draft, Bryan Caplan suggested that there is a strong reason to suspect that, among less schooled people, those more economically enlightened would be more likely to complete the survey. The survey was initiated by email, and taking the survey would require a certain level of curiosity, reading compression, and cognitive focus. The survey procedure tends to screen out those of low IQ. The conjecture is supported by the fact that among our respondents, only 7 percent had no college--a percentage far below that of the population. In our view, Caplan has a good point. Although we see no reason to suspect that, among more schooled people, those less economically enlightened would be more likely to complete the survey, we do think that the sort of effect suggested by Caplan is certainly operating to some extent. Meanwhile, as shown by Caplan and Miller (2006), IQ correlates with economic understanding. Thus, we can imagine how Figure 1 would look if somehow the sample were truly representative: The ends at the left would be lower, and so the lines would slope upward, indicating a positive correlation between economic enlightenment and education level.
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In a nutshell, what's going on is that amongst an educated population, the response rate to the survey might be about random. The response rate amongst less educated folks might be skewed toward folks that are smart, curious, and know what's going on in the world.

Denny Crane · Jun 14, 2010

^^^

Pretty much agrees with what I posted earlier:

Denny Crane said: ↑

Due to the methodology of this survey, we know:
1) thousands of people answered
2) there's no evidence whatsoever that the survey was rigged
3) those who identified themselves as progressives failed miserably
4) that those who took the test are literate, computer literate, understand e-mail and how to use a browser
5) from #4 above, they have access to Nate Silver's site as well as others with economics information on them
6) a whole lot of liberals/progressives answered the questions and failed to demonstrate even basic understanding economic principles

Does it extrapolate to the entire population of liberals/progressives? No. Is the sample size substantial, yes.

The answers are what the answers are, the number of people who participated is the number who participated.
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barfo · Jun 14, 2010

Re: Perhaps and explanation why the economy isn't improving under the Messiah

MikeDC said: ↑

So you think that certain people who self-identify as liberals either don't know anything about economics or are a bunch of lying rat fucks who don't know anything about economics. Glad that's settled
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Fixed that for you. Now it is correct.

barfo

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Perhaps an explanation why the economy isn't improving under the Messiah

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Perhaps an explanation why the economy isn't improving under the Messiah

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maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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