Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Denny Crane, Jul 18, 2010.

  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/18/health/policy/18health.html?_r=1&ref=politics

    Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax

    By ROBERT PEAR

    WASHINGTON — When Congress required most Americans to obtain health insurance or pay a penalty, Democrats denied that they were creating a new tax. But in court, the Obama administration and its allies now defend the requirement as an exercise of the government’s “power to lay and collect taxes.”

    And that power, they say, is even more sweeping than the federal power to regulate interstate commerce.

    Administration officials say the tax argument is a linchpin of their legal case in defense of the health care overhaul and its individual mandate, now being challenged in court by more than 20 states and several private organizations.

    Under the legislation signed by President Obama in March, most Americans will have to maintain “minimum essential coverage” starting in 2014. Many people will be eligible for federal subsidies to help them pay premiums.

    In a brief defending the law, the Justice Department says the requirement for people to carry insurance or pay the penalty is “a valid exercise” of Congress’s power to impose taxes.

    Congress can use its taxing power “even for purposes that would exceed its powers under other provisions” of the Constitution, the department said. For more than a century, it added, the Supreme Court has held that Congress can tax activities that it could not reach by using its power to regulate commerce.

    While Congress was working on the health care legislation, Mr. Obama refused to accept the argument that a mandate to buy insurance, enforced by financial penalties, was equivalent to a tax.

    “For us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase,” the president said last September, in a spirited exchange with George Stephanopoulos on the ABC News program “This Week.”

    When Mr. Stephanopoulos said the penalty appeared to fit the dictionary definition of a tax, Mr. Obama replied, “I absolutely reject that notion.”

    Congress anticipated a constitutional challenge to the individual mandate. Accordingly, the law includes 10 detailed findings meant to show that the mandate regulates commercial activity important to the nation’s economy. Nowhere does Congress cite its taxing power as a source of authority.

    Under the Constitution, Congress can exercise its taxing power to provide for the “general welfare.” It is for Congress, not courts, to decide which taxes are “conducive to the general welfare,” the Supreme Court said 73 years ago in upholding the Social Security Act.

    Dan Pfeiffer, the White House communications director, described the tax power as an alternative source of authority.

    “The Commerce Clause supplies sufficient authority for the shared-responsibility requirements in the new health reform law,” Mr. Pfeiffer said. “To the extent that there is any question of additional authority — and we don’t believe there is — it would be available through the General Welfare Clause.”

    The law describes the levy on the uninsured as a “penalty” rather than a tax. The Justice Department brushes aside the distinction, saying “the statutory label” does not matter. The constitutionality of a tax law depends on “its practical operation,” not the precise form of words used to describe it, the department says, citing a long line of Supreme Court cases.

    Moreover, the department says the penalty is a tax because it will raise substantial revenue: $4 billion a year by 2017, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

    In addition, the department notes, the penalty is imposed and collected under the Internal Revenue Code, and people must report it on their tax returns “as an addition to income tax liability.”

    Because the penalty is a tax, the department says, no one can challenge it in court before paying it and seeking a refund.

    Jack M. Balkin, a professor at Yale Law School who supports the new law, said, “The tax argument is the strongest argument for upholding” the individual-coverage requirement.

    Mr. Obama “has not been honest with the American people about the nature of this bill,” Mr. Balkin said last month at a meeting of the American Constitution Society, a progressive legal organization. “This bill is a tax. Because it’s a tax, it’s completely constitutional.”

    Mr. Balkin and other law professors pressed that argument in a friend-of-the-court brief filed in one of the pending cases.

    Opponents contend that the “minimum coverage provision” is unconstitutional because it exceeds Congress’s power to regulate commerce.

    “This is the first time that Congress has ever ordered Americans to use their own money to purchase a particular good or service,” said Senator Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah.

    In their lawsuit, Florida and other states say: “Congress is attempting to regulate and penalize Americans for choosing not to engage in economic activity. If Congress can do this much, there will be virtually no sphere of private decision-making beyond the reach of federal power.”

    In reply, the administration and its allies say that a person who goes without insurance is simply choosing to pay for health care out of pocket at a later date. In the aggregate, they say, these decisions have a substantial effect on the interstate market for health care and health insurance.

    In its legal briefs, the Obama administration points to a famous New Deal case, Wickard v. Filburn, in which the Supreme Court upheld a penalty imposed on an Ohio farmer who had grown a small amount of wheat, in excess of his production quota, purely for his own use.

    The wheat grown by Roscoe Filburn “may be trivial by itself,” the court said, but when combined with the output of other small farmers, it significantly affected interstate commerce and could therefore be regulated by the government as part of a broad scheme regulating interstate commerce.
     
  2. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    It is a tax, and always was. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

    And I think the administration will win this one in the courts because the feds have the power to tax. It's only an option to buy insurance instead.
     
  3. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    26,226
    Likes Received:
    14,407
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    User Interface Designer
    Location:
    Hello darkness, my old friend
    I agree with you. That was the point I made when people were horrified at the idea of the federal government "forcing" citizens to buy insurance. What they were doing was no different than taxing everyone and using that money to buy insurance for everyone. Essentially the same as most federal spending.

    If you don't like taxes and government programs, that's fine. But there was nothing fundamentally new or un-American about it.
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    There is the part about the democrats trying to dupe people by saying it wasn't a tax all along.
     
  5. BLAZER PROPHET

    BLAZER PROPHET Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    18,725
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    dental malpractice claims adjuster
    Location:
    Portland area
    I reacll that. Obama, Pelosi and Reid made it clear that it was not a tax. Now, we are told it was a tax all along. That's just crap. Bald face lies from our highest paid officials.
     
  6. blazerboy30

    blazerboy30 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,465
    Likes Received:
    423
    Trophy Points:
    83
    :crazy: :crazy:

     
  7. Idog1976

    Idog1976 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    6,730
    Likes Received:
    3,927
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    I look to the stars.
    Location:
    P-Town baby!
    Welcome to the last 50 years of politics.

    [video=youtube;E5DZBFbMdjI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5DZBFbMdjI[/video]

    P.S. Republicans do the EXACT same things. The only difference between the two parties is their stance on the culture wars. Anyone who can't see that just ain't paying attention or are absolutely blinded by partisanship.
     
  8. Idog1976

    Idog1976 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    6,730
    Likes Received:
    3,927
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    I look to the stars.
    Location:
    P-Town baby!
    You guys live in America right?

    [video=youtube;5odPAK17hOI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5odPAK17hOI[/video]

    By the way I didn't vote for Obushma because I actually pay attention to history and politics and know that the NON-DEMOCRATIC RNC and DNC along with their corporate media buddies railroad folks into a false dichotomy of two Oligarchy candidates. I've been voting third party for years.
     
  9. BLAZER PROPHET

    BLAZER PROPHET Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    18,725
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    dental malpractice claims adjuster
    Location:
    Portland area
    Question: Why do you assume I'm a republican- when I'm not. I'm aware of the lies of most politicians. But right now, Obama/Pelosi/Reid lies are on trial because they are in power. To sweep them aside under the guise it's fine to lie as the GOP lies is interesting, but a fail.
     
  10. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    26,096
    Likes Received:
    9,073
    Trophy Points:
    113
    BP, I can't remember (sorry if I got it wrong), but were you the one that was going to do a tax analysis pre- and post-Obama?
     
  11. blazerboy30

    blazerboy30 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,465
    Likes Received:
    423
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Um, sorry. Did you just try to justify Obama's and this admiinstration's lies with the lies of previous Republicans?

    Weird.
     
  12. BLAZER PROPHET

    BLAZER PROPHET Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    18,725
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    dental malpractice claims adjuster
    Location:
    Portland area
    Yes I was going to. Circumstances (with my wife's income- or loss thereof) made it too difficult to fully determine. However, initially they did go down (I can tell you that), but at the end they seemed to be higher. I had hoped I could have done this but it didn't turn out. It's also hard to tell given new tax write-offs and other things (various fees...) that went up.
     
  13. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    26,226
    Likes Received:
    14,407
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    User Interface Designer
    Location:
    Hello darkness, my old friend
    Sure, it's part of the spin war. It's not a part of politics I like, but certainly no political party would ever succeed without trying to win the battle of public relations. How things are labeled and what "fear words" get applied are part and parcel with successfully pushing through or successfully blocking policy. The health care "debate" was really not a very intellectually honest or stimulating debate, and more of both sides trying to be better at propaganda. In my view, that goes for both the Democrats and the Republicans.
     
  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    So much for the "changey" part of hopey changey.
     
  15. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    26,226
    Likes Received:
    14,407
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    User Interface Designer
    Location:
    Hello darkness, my old friend
    Quite so. I didn't expect a change in process from Bush to Obama, simply a change in the slant of the politics.
     
  16. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    28,303
    Likes Received:
    5,884
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Merchant Banker
    Location:
    Denver, CO & Lake Oswego, OR
  17. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    28,303
    Likes Received:
    5,884
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Merchant Banker
    Location:
    Denver, CO & Lake Oswego, OR
  18. Idog1976

    Idog1976 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    6,730
    Likes Received:
    3,927
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    I look to the stars.
    Location:
    P-Town baby!
    No, I actually qualified it as more of the same. I'm responding to you and Blazer Prophet both since you didn't read a damn thing I said. I just know a lot on here bash the Dems and then use zero critical thinking when supporting the Repubs. If you guys didn't vote for Bush either time well then awesome, I love Libertarians. I don't agree with them about everything but at least they are better then the damn brown shirt Republicans or panty waste Democrats who don't have the balls to call out Obushma for his CONTINUING WAR in the Middle East that I thought was the entire rage against Bush. I'm sick of both parties they work for the Oligarchas and don't give two shits about us but how best to control us and squeeze every penny they can from us.

    I just can't stand all the memory loss type Republicans who are all yelling about the Bill of Rights, domestic spying and huge ass government while for 8 years they stood idly by and supported the goose stepping Bush Admin. I mean give me a god damned break. And seriously anyone who is shocked by those naughty Democrats lying after living under the Bush Admin is just such a fucking hypocrite it's ridiculous. If you hated Bush and didn't vote for Obama (like me!!!) then hats fucking off to you for being a real American and trying to keep the ship of state from ramming even FURTHER into the iceberg. I voted third party, and why? Because Obama is no better then Bush and in some ways worse (fiscal/monetary), but Bush still (for the time being)holds the title of worst president of the past probably 234 years not coincidently the length of the this countries existence.

    Fuck the Republicans and Fuck the Democrats and Obama may they all rot in hell for what they have turned this country into. Please spin this back on to the Democrats now and say "stop living in the past" that's what it says on page 3 of the Glenn Beck "I swear I'm not a corporate oligarchy shock info-trooper" hand book of feigned innocence and pathetic partisanship.
     
  19. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Anyone who thinks that must be ignoring the presidencies of Carter, Ford, LBJ, Kennedy, and Truman. And that's just a few who were clearly worse. You might throw Nixon in with that bunch. Carter was certainly the worst in my lifetime, though Obama's presidency has a lot of similarities (except for the inflation and high interest rates).
     

Share This Page