That's because you're assuming a healthy Oden that plays well. Plus, once they shed Okafor's and Paul's salary, even IF Oden gets an upwards of 10 Million, they'd be able to afford him and stay under the cap. Would they pay him? Depends on how good Oden is. What evidence do we have that NO wants Batum, or Roy, or Aldridge, or Bayless, or Rudy, etc. etc. See how easy that was? We, as fans, don't have evidence for anything, we can only make guesses. My guess is that Oden holds positive value that New Orleans would want. And FWIW, my opinion has been that NO would want both Batum and Oden. I can't argue with that.....because I'm not New Orleans.....and I don't know what they value most. I haven't been arguing that we should actively seek to include him in any trade. In fact, I don't think anyone is arguing that. I'd rather keep him. I'm arguing that if New Orleans does want him included, then we should include him.
Sure, fouls plagued both his two seasons, limiting his minutes. The lack of playing time, just like with injuries, limited his value...but I think it's pretty fair to say he played well in both seasons when on the floor. He just couldn't stay on the floor enough to be high value.
I wouldn't disagree, but I would say his play last year certainly made his foul problems more forgivable than during his rookie season. A pretty worthless point we're arguing anyways.
I don't think you get it. New Orleans can't pay players market rate salaries. Period. Why else would they want to DUMP (very badly dump) Okafor. Who is actually a decent 7 footer, who is HEALTHY, who is earning close to MARKET rate (after this summers big deal anyhow) for a 7 footer that doesn't suck. So, if they are sane, they want good players under rookie deals so they are bargains. Or, they want lottery picks. Or, they want good players that are locked into long deals at below market rates. Also, if Paul leaves they might want to go into rebuilding mode, which means trading veterans for youth (and/or future picks) so the team can develop young players and as a huge side benefit lose lots of games and increase the value of their own pick. Would they want Oden? Sure. Why not? Of couse they will ask for him. That is not the point. The point is they won't offer BIG value for him. They are not stupid. They know if they get Oden that odds are it doesn't end well for their franchise. Either he is injured, in which case they have paid a LOT of money in salary for nothing. Or, he stays healthy and blows up in which case he gets a MAX offer from NJ or some team next summer, and they lose him. There aren't a lot of scenarios where NO wouldn't have been better off just sticking with Okafor.
It is completely the point, and if you're going to concede that they will ask for him, what good is the rest of your argument? Even if they don't pay him after his contract is up, he's 1.) Cheaper than Okafor for the year he does play and 2.) is expiring.
To follow up on Masbee's points which are very similar to the ones I'm making there is one crucial point here. NOH wouldn't see him as a centerpiece or deal breaker. Therefore it's definitely not in our best interests to trade him as he would be seen at best as a sweetener. We have other sweeteners or center pieces among our assets or gettable through trades. Including Oden would be foolish and weak negotiating on our part. Trading Batum + Oden + half our team and assets starts looking to me like a foolish trade if we have championship aspirations. If NOH sees Oden as centerpiece material there is an argument for trading him. Given our injury history as of late we should be mighty leery of wiping out our defense and depth in one go especially if we want to beat Miami. To beat Miami and LAL will require depth and size. I'd rather go to battle with our current team then wipe out depth and defensefor Paul. We can make a better offer then most teams without including Oden. If worse comes to worse we let them keep Paul and try again at the deadline or next summer. No need to outbid ourselves when we have the leverage.
Dude, jeez, the point is that NO likely wont put BIG value on Oden. He is worth more to us than to them. If Batum, Bayless and expirings and eating Okafor is not enough to get a deal done, there are other ways to increase the value to them. IF NO for some very, very strange reason says they really really want Oden bad - that he is the centerpiece for what they want for Paul, then fine. They can have him. But that's it. They can't have every damn thing. What the heck is Orlando going to offer that would be so great that the Blazers would have to consider trumping with an Oden/Batum/eat Okafor deal? And, since NO lusting after Oden as the centerpiece is silly, we go around in circles. Blazers: How about Bayless, Williams, Babbitt & expirings for Paul and Posey? NO: Not even close. Orlando has a better offer on the table. Blazers: How about Batum, Bayless & expirings for Paul and Okafor? NO: Much better, but we want Oden too. Blazers: How about Oden and expirings for Paul and Posey? NO: Wait, we want Batum too and you have to take Okafor. Blazers: No, sorry, you can't have Batum AND Oden AND make us eat Okafor. That is just too much.
My stance is that if they want Batum and Oden, you give it to them. We're not going to agree here, but if you want to keep misconstruing my arguments, go ahead. The point isn't whether or not he has BIG value, but positive value, and if that value is enough to push New Orleans to accept the deal. Which I don't know if it is, and neither do you. My opinion is that Batum+Bayless+Expirings is not enough, and it would require Oden as well. And by the way, even if they feel Oden is a complete busto, an Oden for Posey swap saves them over $8Million over the course of two years.
The reason Paul wants to come here is to team up with Roy, so if Roy's gone he won't have any interest. /thread
But he doesn't have a no trade clause and given that we would likely be in the WCF every year if not in Finals with a chance to win it all I think he re-signs with us. Think about it, if we're in the Finals for two years he likely re-signs with us for the max money and more shots at a title. Really though the entire point of this thread is trading Oden as a throw in with Batum is stupid and trading Roy is just as dumb but better for us the Batum + Oden.
Ok, maybe. I would think about it. But NOT also eating Okafor's contract. See my point? Oh, but that IS the point. If they want more. If they have a deal from another team that they value equally or a bit more than our non-Oden offer, the need is to increase the value of the deal. The need is NOT to just throw in Oden as the only option to increase value. If you are at a store buying something, and it costs $120 and you give the manager a $100 dollar bill, and try to get them to accept that as full payment and they flat refuse, insisting on $120, do you dig in your wallet and pull out another $100 (Oden's value to the Blazers in this instance) and hand it to them and walk away? Or do you try to find a $20 bill or figure out how to get your $80 change back? That to me is the issue. Show me a deal where a team that Paul would want to go to could sensibly offer to NO as much in salary savings as eating Okafor, and as interesting a combination of young talent as Batum AND Oden. Who are we competing against here? Are you bidding against yourself in a matter of speaking. "Oh my god, it's Chris Paul, I will give you anything you want - everything you want." Of course they want to add Oden to the deal. Shin wants to be as rich as Paul Allen. What they want and what the best deal they will find for Paul are two different things.
Paul has been quoted as saying he wouldn't want to play in Portland without Roy or Aldridge. Look up the quotes here yourself. Also, it's that poster's opinion, just like every other fucking post on this board, so it can't be "linked". "Link?" isn't how to debate opinions, unless you're being snarky, but that's been overplayed as snark on this board, so it's not at all original.
Yes, that was me being snarky, as I explained in another post in this thread. Since I did it, it is no longer original.
Hey, Dert Clod made #12 on Canzano's 25 Most Influential People in Oregon Sports that was published in today's paper. Dirt Chode is a King maker!
Honestly, If Oden is going out in the deal, I'd be happy to take back Okafor because he'd be a useful player that fills a need. I never said it was the only option... Of course I don't know what offers NO has on the table and which ones they would take. All I'm saying is if it came down to it, I'd give up Oden in the deal. For the love of god I'm not insisting that the Blazers shouldn't look at other options and/or insert Oden in the deal at all costs. In a hypothetical situation where our only option is a deal involving both Oden and Batum, I would pull the trigger. That is where our opinions differ.
