ESPN reporting Lakers NOT in mix for Chris Paul

Shape I appreciate the calm response.

Let's look at Kobe's basic stats in 2009-2010.

Clearly he was injured and more inefficient than in his prime. His eFG% (this is not advanced at all) was its lowest since 2004. His TS% (again not advanced) hasn't been this low since 2002.

Per 36 minutes, he was playing at clearly an inferior level to his 2009 form. He's primarily a scorer, and if his percentages were lower than they have been in 6-8 years, you should expect a dropoff. The fact that LA was still able to win 57 games is because of the great job Mitch has done.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_season.html

The best single seasons of all-time according to Per. How is this not a reasonable list? For offensive players, perimeter players, it is a great barometer. There are many others of course.

 

Well, we take GREAT pride in our team. SO much pride that we cannot stand to see other teams succeed and our's fail. We, for the most part, give respect where its due. As much as we hate the Celtics, we respect how far they got last season. Kevin Durant isn't a Laker, yet we respect his humility; a key trait that a certain LeBron lacks.

Most of us were fans even when we went 34-48. We stick with our team through tough times and through glory. Now, I'm sorry, but if you absolutely have to follow a team with 3 of the best players in the league who refuse to take team as the sole leader to the championship and win a ring (taking the easy way out), and, perhaps the best team on paper just because a genius in Pat Riley signed the right guys, then yes, you are a bandwagon fan. If Bron, Wade, and Bosh all went to NY, you would be a Knicks fan.

As far as I'm concerned, you perfectly define "bandwagoner."

 

Get this into your mind, I wasn't a Laker fan this season. I was not rooting for the Lakers to win a title this year. In the middle of a repeat, I decided to support the Clippers if necessary. I was an hk fan in 2006 and that's what I am now.

Phil Jackson crushed Kobe's humility in 2004, back off that. Kobe's technical fouls are not humble to a lot of fans, I don't know about this "humility".

Honestly, what are you talking about now? If LA won a title there's no way in hell you would dump them for Chris Paul and his first round exits. I have more mental fortitude than various "real" fans.

So it comes down to this, if he joins a team LA FANS are not jealous of, it is not bandwagoning. You have no clue what you're even ranting about now.

A band wagoner would not even consider the grizzlies, you fail there. A real fan can be part of any fanbase whether they make LA's favorite player look inferior or not.

Well you lack nuance so I'm not surprised. After all you wanted to trade Pau Gasol for Noah.

 

Why do you assume the best player won a title, and not the fourth or fifth best with a good cast?

 

I aggree with Lakerman24 in regards to defining a real fan vs a bandwagon fan. As much as you try to defend yourself HK your ideas and representation of yourself is being a bandwagon fan. This is why many Lakers fans are hated because of kids like you. I honestly dont care if you just jumped on the Heat wagon because like you there is going to be 12 thousand more fans getting in that Heat stadium next year...if the Lakers stop being contenders I bet you, we are still going to be LAkers fans..will still continue to attend games, will still continue to watch games, and will still continue to join forums and write blogs about the Lakers...

To answer your question no I'm not a Bulls fan, I was Jordan fan like many of us that watched him played and my signature has been posting since i joined the forum in 2005.

 

Or he could've just asked a question?

Just saying.

This was about Shape's post.

 

Really, even though I was not a Laker fan this season? I think you have to belong to a side, to be accused of switching.

And I bet you almost no one is in that "elite" percentage, that would dump LA for Chris Paul. I've already done something comparable to that. Most people are just homers, let's be honest.

Right so you happily admit to being a bandwagon fan then.

 

HK, once the "super best friends trio" breaks up, then who you going to root for?

Next year, there are talks of an Amare-Melo-CP3 trio in NY. Maybe they should be your favorite team.....next year though......

This generation disgusts me. Whatever happened to loyalty to a single team? I remember how many of us said when Kobe was about to be traded that "I'm a Laker fan first, a Kobe fan second." That's being a true fan.

Apparently, following where all the stars go is NOT being a bandwagon fan....hmmmmm.....I guess the definition has changed somewhere and most of us are unaware of it.

 

And, to reply to your quote about leading and not following, I think a mature superstar like Kobe says "screw 'being the best.' Championships is where its at." Honestly, with Bron joining Wade and Bosh, he's finally becoming a part of that philosophy, he's just taking the easy way out BY joining the 2nd best SG in the game and one of the best PFs in the game. Kobe stayed through thick and thin...but of course, you probably forgot all about that.

 

Hmm let's review some things.

1. You said I'm bandwagon.
2. I'm not a Laker fan.
3. I wasn't a Heat fan when they won a title. I live in Miami, and Kobe choked in 2006 and I respected him more.
4. Kobe's fanbase is a huge reason I can't follow anymore. They're not savvy to me.
5. I'm not a fan of teams either, clearly that is obvious.
6. What makes you so special? That you follow laundry?
7. A bandwagon fan doesn't follow the Clippers or whatever, that IS the definition.
8. That he went to Miami is purely chance (which you're conveniently forgetting), and you're combining that with jealousy.
9. Let's not bring up humility.
10. I'm more mature now, if I was back in 2006 James would have always been the player I want to see perform. I have more metrics in my arsenal now.
11. The Kobe base really is disruptive though, or I would like him more.

No I don't care.

 

Didn't you have the Jesus Christ with the Lakers Logo in the middle just like last week? mmm bandwagon.

How does that admit anything of me...dont be foolish! You dont know anything about me.

I've been to more Lakers games then you will ever go. Since I started watching Basketball regularly in 1995 I became a Lakers. So dont make assuptions about me if you dont know.

 

Out of laziness, I said Kobe's a choke artist (using the standards Laker fans bring up against other players) and has been inferior since late 2009. Everyone here recalls my other long discussions even with the "Laker" logo.

I never said I wanted LA to win anything this year.

Oh but I clearly have exposed you as a hypocrite.

Next time change your sig before you preach, that was an enjoyable thing to notice though.

I don't have to make assumptions, you gladly admitted your bandwagon nature.

I'll go to more Miami games than you ever will... So I'm not exactly troubled.

 

I don't know why everyone is arguing. HK is on a higher level of understanding and being than us. There is no point. Plus, we've been wrong all this time. Our Lakers suck big balls, totally not worth the time and money to support the team. And we're fucking retarded for still watching their games.

Shit people.

 

There's nothing wrong with rooting against the Heat, and rooting for the Lakers.

I don't think we should all be on the same side either. I am going by my values, that's all.

 

Yeah I agree. HK you are right I'm on the Lakers Wagon since '95 and I only wath every game since then because I love to see them suck and yeah I'm a hypocrite cause I'm the only basketball fan that likes Jordan and roots for another team. There i said it.

Anyway...really excited for next season. No need to get NBA pass cause all the games i need to watch are televised locally. LOL.

 

You're clearly a Bulls bandwagon fan, I'm just slurping your philosophy.

"I aggree [sic] with Lakerman24 in regards to defining a real fan vs a bandwagon fan. As much as you try to defend yourself HK your ideas and representation of yourself is being a bandwagon fan. "

I get it, hypocrite.

 

Yes what a funny concept I suggested, only the BEST player can lead his team to a championship. Every year the second best player and the third best player has NO chance, or even a REALISTIC chance to lead their team to a title.

And every player has an equal supporting cast...

Ok now that I've exposed your views again, realize you're not making any sense.

Give me a break Shape, you're showing how little you understand basic logic right now.

The best, as in the top 5 or 7 or whatever. Face it your premise is silly. Paul Pierce was not the best player in the NBA in 2008, even if you think he outplayed Kobe in your opinion. Because Kobe was not the best player in the NBA in 2008.

Billups is happy to know he was the best player in 2004 then, when Kobe lost that series by himself and with Prime Shaq.

He also choked into a fifth title, it wasn't impressive. He choked in the 08 Finals, that wasn't impressive. He was decent against Orlando but Pau Gasol stepped up on D against Howard. If Howard had a Cleveland series LA would be in far more trouble.

He's favored this year, you sure?

For someone obsessed with post-season play, you sure are unaware of his "good" supporting cast in the Playoffs. Odom against Phoenix > Mo.

Ok the problem is, Kobe choked against the Celtics and LA won. LeBron had more heart, desire, production, defense, leadership in Game 6 vs Boston and his team couldn't defend KG to save its life. Kobe gets injured and his team still wins 57 games.

He has clearly a poor regular season for his standards and you still complain about his PER.

Here's a question Shape, why is Mo Williams allowed to choke like a coward but you still claim he's playing at the "same" level? Very hyporitical. If Mo is playing poorly, and Varejao is not defending, that's not having a good supporting cast.

He was 8 percent below his season average against Orlando, and he played more minutes a game and did less in it. If Kobe shot 38% he wouldn't be at the same level.

Is this a tough concept to understand? Mo and Antawn shot 40% against Boston, without hitting 3's either.

And you need to face reality, the fourth or fifth best player (Kobe) can win a title. Mo Williams played like trash. Hold that accountable.

He is the MVP, he's a foul call away from going to a game 7 in Cleveland, in spite of Mo Williams being below Lamar Odom level.

Oh I certainly can, Kobe choked a 3-1 lead. LeBron would never let that happen when he's up by that margin. Kobe quit in Game 7 and you give him a pass.

Kobe's a career choke artist from ages 23-28. He's not even all-star level (21.2 PER), he is an inefficient volume scorer (Compared to James, Shaq, etc.) who had Shaq for 3 titles. Then gagged into a fifth one.

LeBron was accused of choking with a 38/8/8 52 eFG% series, you know nothing about "chokes".

I have a better question, was that Wade's best season even in the playoffs? He was a better player in 2010 and got bounced in the first round.

Your own theories expose you. I'm trying to do you a favor. I wasted my time mindlessly defending Kobe when every single metric shows he's not the best player in the NBA. He only had a case in 2006, and he gagged a 3-1 lead.

Of course I was smart enough to know back then he would bounce back. I also know you're dead wrong now, you can't produce any evidence whatsoever that his teammates didn't bail him out.

It is simple, if Kobe's teammates were off and he was on, I wouldn't be able to say much. That's not the case though. Besides LeBron has never choked and his "off-series" is generally superior (better than most of Kobe's series in fact). Kobe has a far uglier resume with regards to chokes. LeBron with Pau beat the Celtics in 2008, and win in 2009 easily.

Sure the playoff stats I mention all the time. If you're gagging in the playoffs (Kobe against the Thunder, or Kevin Durant against the Lakers), it'll be reflected in the metrics. It isn't a tough concept to understand.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7063

Oh what is your great system then? It basically consists of : "I'm right he has a ring". It's silly dude, that's the biggest reason I can't watch the Lakers anymore.

And I mentioned this. Why did you even question his PER then?

Btw i like to use PER multiplied by minutes. To at least account for durability. I don't just go by PER, it's just that there is no metric to support Bryant. Dean Oliver's stats are also excellent for trying to account for a usage-efficiency tradeoff. It also provides me with a defensive rating which is interesting. 82games.com is also another good source.

And it showed in the playoffs, and over the past few seasons.

You mean recognizing Kobe was nowhere near LeBron this year, but LA still won 57 games even when Kobe was struggling? But in 2006 they struggled to win 45 games and Kobe was beasting?

Wait a sec, you bring about teammates when they don't help Kobe, but then when he has good teammates you say they were never that good anyway? It is one or the other, you don't get to make up things as you go along. Kobe in 07 > This Kobe.

In fact, no matter what excuse you use you won't get anywhere. He either had Shaq bailing him out in the Finals (35 PPG, 14 RPG 58% shooting), or he blew his prime years when he didn't lead his teammates to better results.

Kobe was a better player in 2007, he won 42 games. There's no "it" factor, Kobe choked in 2008 and got "farther" than LeBron. The Celtics play in the East, the Magic play in the East and match up well with the Cavs.

More likely Pau Gasol played better in the Finals and that's why LA won. In fact that's exactly it.

Miami should clearly be favored. Miami's top 5 or 6 players > anyone. If LeBron plays at 09 level, and he gets Pau Gasol production from Bosh that would be enough as it is. Other guys would have to make up Odom/Bynum and Ariza-Artest's impact if he plays at 2010 level (Wade/Haslem/Miller), and then the rest of the cast can be role players.