ESPN reporting Lakers NOT in mix for Chris Paul

HK, how would you explain that most of the NBA players say Kobe is the best player in the league? At least that's what I've heard over the years, I can't remember persons other than Barkley and journalists saying LeBron is the best player in the league. I would trust the one who's playing the game and going against them, not someone who probably hasn't played basketball in his life (journalists)


On other notes, are we talking about right now or in the big picture? LeBron and Kobe got together in a silly time, LeBron's prime is when Kobe is going into his 30s which is a weak point in one's career, I would agree that probably right now LeBron is better but this has very much to do with Kobe's age. His stats haven't taken a big hit but you can see he has lost some of his explosiveness and maybe can't go over 50pts so often. Still I'm arguing about both's legacy and career, what have they done to the game and how they go into history.

 

And those same jocks would fail terribly at trying to predict the future, or analyze the past compared to apbr people.

Umm being athletic doesn't make you smart or an expert either. Jocks fail in the NBA all the time, I'm also interested in why you won't discuss this issue with me directly.

I'm interested in the "why" not the "who" ("why do you think that, Mr. jock?" I would ask him).

What matters is what history says years from now. Or what the more educated people on this subject think (people who can predict NBA seasons and explain their reasons with logic).

You've contradicted yourself in this post though. Clearly you realize Kobe is in his off-peak and is inferior, and in his peak he didn't win titles.

The big picture is something I've touched on already. I respect Kobe's career more in other seasons.

 

He didn't win 2 titles in his prime but he was playing at a very high level. It was impossible for him to win titles in his prime (the option what LeBron had in Cleveland)

If you put it like this, Jordan also wasn't at his prime when he won his last two rings, does that make him worse?

 

The larger point is that, prime doesn't equal titles. And best player doesn't always equal titles. Just one of the best.

And yet his supporting cast played better, Lamar Odom's prime production in the post-season destroys what Mo did.

Kobe's performance against the Suns was sub-par.

So you're helping my case? Thanks.

 

I dont know how anyone could say Kobe's play is inferior..... Even on his worst days, he's better than 90% of the league....... ON his best days, he's the best on the planet. That hasnt changed much. Lebron and Wade would both agree too.

 

How am I helping your case? I think it's idiotic to say Jordan was inferior while winning his last two rings.

 

Did Kobe contribute like Jordan in his prime? No so you need to stop the comparison. Jordan's "off-peak" is also much higher than Kobe's, so it is idiotic to compare both.

Jordan had better seasons where he didn't even get past the second round. You need teammates, you can't will an inexperienced high draft pick.

Listen, if you can't understand the contradiction in your own post you're lost. You made the comment not me.

He's clearly inferior now. He was much better before.

Except this isn't supported by reality.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7043

 

So you would pick Jennings and Billups over Kobe if you need a leader in your team? At least thats what the stats say...

 

Wow you don't know how to read charts, or Trench's posts.

"ON his best days, he's the best on the planet. That hasnt changed much."

 

I only watched who had better PER or whatever than Kobe, I'll probably never buy these advanced stats stuff. Anyways, what the stats say about Kobe performing in crunch time? Last I remember he wasn't in top 3 in these either ;D

 

HK, if you dislike the lakers and kobe so muych, what are you still doing here? why hang around us when its clear that this argument is never going to end, its a difference of opinion on basketball, it doesnt make you or any of the laker fans arguing with you, dumb or smart or whatever, its just a different opinion.

you keep saying shit like, "thanks for the calm responce". first of all, stop being so passive agressive, its not good for promoting safe, fun, enjoyable discussion. also, dont act like such an authority on everything, sure you may pay a lot of attention to your sources, but so do others here. I for one have played and coached at a reasonably high level here in australia, and have had a pretty decent exposure to the workings of what makes teams, players and fans who they are. what i can tell from all your responses is you know a lot about the individual play of certain players within the nba. but whether you like it or not, its a team sport at the end of the day, if you want to argue and go on and on like you are doing then go join a discussion about tennis or something.

your risking making yourself very unwelcome among laker fans, and later down the track you may come to regret being so argumentative and judgmental. we've all enjoyed discussing the nba with you, lets not tarnish it with endless arguments that go nowhere. basically agree to disagree.

 

Are you saying you respect Lebron more than Kobe? If so, could you explain?

 

I find this to be the funniest thread ever on S2.


HAHA HK, you're a funny guy. I guess we can respect LeBron more than Kobe, I mean, LeBron has done SO much more in his career......

Lakers suck. I don't like the way they're heading. I mean, back 2 back championships, and very likely a third coming, the whole organization is stupid, unfair, and skewed. We should trade Kobe Bryant and Andrew Bynum for Greg Oden. That way we have someone who has a higher PER playing alongside Pau Gasol. We'll be more respectable then.

By the way, I'm officially rooting for no team, but I'll put the Chicago Bulls as my picture and follow them. After all, they got pretty good this summer with Boozer, Korver, and CJ Watson joining the mix.

But wait, no, I'm REALLY rooting for no teams. I'm just rooting for lakerman24.

Oh, and Lakers suck.

^Haha thats how you sound, HK.

 

Why all this talk about PER, metrics, Stats, bullshiz bullshiz bull shiz? Here is a simple argument:

Cavs win the best record the last two years with the MVP (LeBron James) in their team = ZERO Titles.

Lakers do not win the best record in the last two years, no MVP in their team = Two Titles.

Therefore; Having the best record and so called MVP doesnt guarantee a championship.

You can talk about all the stats, metrics, PER, and bullshiz, but evey team still has to play 82 games and five rounds of basketball to be crowned the NBA champion. In the mean time, Lakers are the 2 Time Champs.

And I'm also really confused about HK's argument, what are you trying to probe? Are you trying to convince your self that the HEAT are the best team? You obviously belive that. If you are trying to convince us that the HEAT are the best team we obviously going to argue against it as we still have some basketball to play. NOw if down the road the things are different and LAkers are no longer contenders, then I think many us Laker fans will admit what ever scenerio.

 

HK, What turned you off about the Lakers so much that you turned away from them?

 

My development into an objective analyst, that came with time. That combined with the new LA attitude which was not around in 2006. Rather than rely on greatness, made up intangibles that I simply don't see supported anywhere.

Your criticism was naive as it is, in a one game sample size anything can happen.

And? What about it?

Well I'm not really discussing anything with you anymore in this thread, so no need to worry. Some people are distorting my own views and explanations though, so I will certainly address that.

I was referring more to this post:

http://sportstwo.com/threads/165514...r-Chris-Paul?p=2392731&viewfull=1#post2392731

I think people like that can't complain about passive-aggressive anything, they opened themselves up for criticism.

 

This "study" you gave me was for games 1-6, you can't sass me.

June 15 specifically.

Stop with this silly discussion, you have no stats, only intangibles. Your argument equals intangibles it is really that simple.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6508

98.7 offensive rating, 111.6 Defensive rating, on 32.1% possessions for Kobe in 2008.

He was horrific, in contrast LeBron was at a 103 offensive rating per 32% possessions, and a D-rating in the 90s.

This is without Kobe's huge chokejob in Game 7. Let BBR do this stuff instead, PPP is diet offensive rating.

LeBron against top 5 defenses, last 28 games (09 playoffs- 2010 playoffs):

1153 minutes
30.5 PPG
12.25 fta
58.25 TS%
7.6 rpg
7.8 apg
4.1 tpg

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=7079

Reality time, Kobe did the majority of his damage against the Suns, the 8th worst defense.

Against the top 10 defenses in the playoffs Kobe had a 103.9 offensive rating, per 33.9% possessions.

Pau Gasol was better against top defenses this year.

Interesting article, and surprisingly positive.

We can explain nearly everything on offense in apbr, defense is trickiest though.

 

HK, if advanced stats say Kobe is not a good clutch player, do you instantly believe it ?