What does the expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts mean to you?

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by maxiep, Jul 29, 2010.

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  1. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I took your advice and didn't believe you.
    I only tried 6 or 8 such scenarios, but every one came back with either equal or lower taxes under Obama's proposal than for the extended Bush cuts.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Jul 29, 2010
    #21
  2. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    That's a proposal and not what's on the table to happen. Under the "maxiep proposal" my taxes go down much more than any of the existing scenarios, but it's still fantasy.
     
    maxiep, Jul 29, 2010
    #22
  3. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    So what exactly did you mean by "run a scenario", then?

    barfo
     
    barfo, Jul 29, 2010
    #23
  4. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    http://www.businessinsider.com/deut...thanks-to-the-end-of-the-bush-tax-cuts-2010-7

     
    EL PRESIDENTE, Jul 29, 2010
    #24
  5. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    That can't possibly be right. You and several others here have repeatedly said the stimulus had no effect. Therefore, how can the expiration of the stimulus possibly cause a decline in GDP?

    I'll also note that the summary is quite misleading when it says "Peter Hooper at Deutsche believes that an end of the Bush tax cuts could remove a full 2.5% form U.S. GDP in 2011."
    The quoted text shows that Deutsche said the tax cut expiration would cause a 1% decline.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Jul 29, 2010
    #25
  6. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    Not saying the stimulus had "no effect". Its just borrowing almost a trillion dollars for things that may or may not do much at all really. Wow. Road construction. yay.
     
    EL PRESIDENTE, Jul 29, 2010
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  7. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    There's one current tax policy, which is due to expire at the end of the year. January 1, 2011 there will be a new tax policy if nothing is done. Anything else is a scenario until something is negotiated. For the record, I think it's dangerous to only increase taxes on the wealthy. If you get to a point where less than 50% of people who are eligable to pay taxes are actually paying them, then they form a natural bloc which votes in representatives that only continue to tax the minority. IMO if there's a tax increase, everyone should have their taxes raised, even if it's only a few dollars. With tax policy, everyone should have skin in the game.
     
    maxiep, Jul 29, 2010
    #27
  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    That $800B stimulus package was 6% of our $14T GDP, yet produced 1% of GDP. You really want to go there?
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 29, 2010
    #28
  9. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    So, anything other than the tax cut expiration is a scenario. Obama's proposal is such a scenario. However, what you said about people under $200K paying more is not true in that scenario.

    So, my point is, don't believe everything you hear.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Jul 29, 2010
    #29
  10. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    More DennyMath. The stimulus package wasn't spent all in one year, so it doesn't make sense to compare it one year of GDP.

    As for the 1%, that apparently is one guys opinion. I'm sure there are other guys with other opinions, too. No reason to take it as gospel.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Jul 29, 2010
    #30
  11. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    You're missing the function of time. Short term, injecting massive amounts of money will have some positive effect. The problem is that money has to be repaid. People and businesses aren't completely stupid; they'll prepare for the day it has to be paid back. That's why businesses haven't expanded with the money pumped into the economy (which hasn't been as much as it should have been)

    One of the real problems with the past two Administrations is that they've focused on consumer spending as the lynchpin of our economy. People are tapped out. We should focus more on exports; it's a much larger, much more stable market.
     
    maxiep, Jul 29, 2010
    #31
  12. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    Aw, how cute; semantic games. I shouldn't have to explain it to you, but using "scenarios" I clearly meant run a single person at $100K, $180K, etc. and a married couple at $150K or $220K.
     
    maxiep, Jul 29, 2010
    #32
  13. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Math, barfo. Spent over two years, only half as terrible, but still terrible results.
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 29, 2010
    #33
  14. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    And I did that, and the results didn't agree with what you claimed. So I asked you what you were talking about, and it seems you weren't really talking about anything.

    Edit: Unless you were trying to imply that the under-$250K-no-tax-increase talk applied to the current law (expiring Bush tax cuts) rather than Obama's proposal. But I don't think you'd do that, because that would just be dishonest, right?

    barfo
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2010
    barfo, Jul 29, 2010
    #34
  15. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    I'm also in the camp where it hurts in scenario 1, but in the Obama situation I make out better than letting the cuts stay.
     
    BrianFromWA, Jul 29, 2010
    #35
  16. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    Seriously? You still don't get it? Of course I was referring to the expiring Bush tax cuts, because what Obama says he wants hasn't yet been passed and likely will not be passed in the form he wants.
     
    maxiep, Jul 29, 2010
    #36
  17. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Well, nobody has ever suggested that the expiration of the tax cuts would result in no tax hike for those under $250K. Nobody. So your implication otherwise, with the warning to not believe everything you hear, was deliberately misleading (I say deliberately because I know you aren't stupid and you know perfectly well that Obama wasn't talking about the current law when he said that nobody under $250K would get a tax hike, he was talking about his proposal).

    barfo
     
    barfo, Jul 29, 2010
    #37
  18. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    [​IMG]
     
    EL PRESIDENTE, Jul 29, 2010
    #38
  19. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    http://sportstwo.com/threads/166292...-mean-to-you?p=2397573&viewfull=1#post2397573
     
    maxiep, Jul 30, 2010
    #39
  20. blazerboy30

    blazerboy30 Well-Known Member

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    Ouch. That is some faulty logic, even for you Barfo.

    Are you really trying to assume that the stimulus money and Bush't Tax Cut expiration affect the same groups of people?

    If anything, perhaps the article suggests what you would hate to believe: Stimulus money is more effective when going to rich people. The ones who better utilize it.
     
    blazerboy30, Jul 30, 2010
    #40
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