While Nik raises good points, it just makes a lot of sense to both teams. Send them $3 million and ask for a Top 3 protected 1st in return. Posey isn't HORRIBLE for us as we could use a 2nd (if Babbit is awful) or 3rd string SF if Batum gets in foul trouble or injured. I still say the deal Nik outlined + we send $3 million and ask for a 1st in return. We could give them rights to Euro's as well, Claver might interest them. NOH is bargaining from weakness IMO. If they don't do something CP3 will deliver an ultimatum next summer.
There's always an opportunity cost in a trade, but you can't expect the Blazers to come out of this "stealing" Collison for nothing either. The bottom line for me is that while it's true Rudy and Bayless could probably help the Hornets who are talent deficient at the wing, neither fills the needs of the Blazers (a point guard to eventually replace Miller and who can play next to Roy) the fact that both still have some talent and could probably be utilized better somewhere else is actually the best reason to trade them -- especially if you are trading them for somebody that addresses your own needs. In this case I think Collison plugs a big enough hole and Posey can still provide you with an adequate 3 and D guy off of the bench for 12-15 minutes a night (which would probably help his old legs stay fresh longer). The Hornets need to feel like they are getting something of value or there's no reason for them to trade Collison in the first place.
Bear in mind we're not the only team out there looking to acquire Collison, if the deal isn't good enough for New Orleans they'll look elsewhere.
I'm almost certain New Orleans wouldn't add a first, and such an unprotected one at that. New Orleans could easily be in the lottery next year. If they were to add a first, I could see a top 20 protected pick, maybe for a few years, then if Portland doesn't get the pick by a certain time, it becomes two seconds. Collison is a good talent, I think a team like Indiana could pony up a good offer and not ask for a 1st in retrun.
If Nate is going to insist on using Roy to funnel the offense through then IMO it is imperative that you get a scoring guard to play off him, preferably a player who can take a bail out pass with 6 seconds or less and CREATE a shot for himself....something which Ellis can do.... I think he would be a great fit next to Roy...he adds that 2nd scorer that the team needs...and alleviates the "Oh shit, I got the ball and 4 seconds on the clock WTF do I do?" mentality that most all the other players on the team, including Lamarcus Aldridge suffer from..... You give Ellis the ball with 4-6 seconds left, not only will he not be afraid to take the shot, but more often than not he will get a good look and the basket...and make the shot..... POR needs more players like that if they are going to continue with a Roy-centric offense....
Sure, but likewise, NOH is not the only team looking at Rudy, and there would be a lot more if JB was on the market. I agree that you have to overpay, but you do not need to include 2 young prospects on roughly the same scale as Collison and take a bad contract, 1 for 1 and money/rights to overseas player makes more sense, imho.
We have a player like that on the roster, his name is Bayless, and he is actually a better scorer than Ellis when you look at TS% - not to mention that he comes at a fraction of the price.
Rudy's value is very depressed (because of his performance in the playoffs and the season more generally), JB's market is probably somewhat limited (not a lot of teams in the market for combo guards with mediocre shooting numbers) so I don't agree that they are on the same "scale" as Collison. I can pretty much guarantee that New Orleans isn't going to do a one for one swap of one of their best assets without shedding a bad contract in the process and certainly not for a depressed asset like Rudy, a limited asset like Bayless and the rights to some unproven quantities like Koponen, Freeland or Claver (maybe for Sinanovic though?).
Who is going to take a huge contract off their hands with Collison? No-one in their right mind would do it. The Blazers can give them Rudy, an unproven off-shore prospect and money. With all due respect to NOH, nobody is going to absorb Posey's contract or Emeka's for Collison. The economy is not good all around, not just in New Orleans. The Blazers will have to overpay, but they will not have to take the pants off and bend over.
A "huge" contract? Posey's deal isn't great but at 6.5 this year and about 7 next it's not like he's some massive albatross that can't be absorbed by a team looking to pick up a young point guard. I guess we just disagree about what constitutes a fair deal in this situation.
I don't care what TS% you throw up there....but to say Bayless is a better scorer than Ellis is complete bullshit.....
Read the rest of the thread Ellis is not good "off the ball" especially not from deep. Do you really want Ellis soaking up low percentage shots and letting defenders sag off of him? I'd rather have Oden or LMA taking those shots. Or better yet a guy who can space the floor with the long ball allowing Roy and Oden to operate.
We seemed to do pretty good with Miller alongside him, someone not providing spacing from deep. Won 4 less games than the previous season, with a ton more injuries to key players.
I'd rather have a guy, who when given the ball with the shot clock expiring has the ability to create and make a good shot for himself...... I think Ellis would be fine off the ball....the reason why he has the ball in his hands so often is that he is on a team of chuckers with no real distributor.....That GS team is all scorers, no distributors or defenders for that matter, that is thier philosophy...so often the best shot any of those players get is the one they are going to have to create themselves.... You put Ellis in POR offense he would be fine off the ball...ghe can hit the mid range shot, get to the rim, take contact to get to the foul line and as mentioned above...can take a dump pass from Roy, which seems to occur with POR offense way to fucking much and actually be able to create a decent shot with it.... Not even Bayless showed he could do that...Bayless could drive if given time to set up his attack run to the basket, but with 4-6 seconds left, forget about it....not enough time to get by his defender and his outside shot was extremely iffy at best..... and the problem I have with LA is that often in crunch times he prefers to PASS off the ball instead of taking the shot like he should....
Agreed. I would be lukewarm on a straight Collison-for-Bayless swap, but wouldn't hate it. Giving up more talent in addition is probably not worth it. However, I would absorb Okafor's contract (if Allen were okay doing so) to get Collison for Rudy + expirings, because I think Okafor is actually a good player. He's not some Eddy Curry type of dead salary. He's a good player who's somewhat overpaid (though maybe less than previously perceived after this off-season's contracts).
Yeah, I would do that as well. Okafor would be a fantastic insurance as a 3rd defensive big with Oden and Camby - and will be a nice replacement for Joel.
$14m for a player in a position the team is deep in is a huge contract imho. That would make the $3m overpaying this year over the MLE for Matthews seem like chump change.
I would prefer Okafor as well, but then you really insure CP3 stays in NOH for the rest of time. I definitely prefer Okafor's talent over Posey's and adding to front court depth.
