Oden: 2nd Best PER for a Second-Year Player in Last Ten Years

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Blaz06Draft, Aug 13, 2010.

  1. RipCityInsider

    RipCityInsider Nice Season Blazers

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    Has he had any wrist problems since then? These are bone breaks, where the the bone heals stronger than before. The bone "welds" together and get denser to deal with greater pressures placed upon it.
     
  2. noknobs

    noknobs Well-Known Member

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    I'm gonna go ahead and agree with this even though I don't know what it means. It just sounds like it's probably accurate.
     
  3. Blazer_Mullet_Man

    Blazer_Mullet_Man Member

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    Sorry, man. Sometimes even I get tired of listening to myself. :) I've been a Blazer fan dating back to the late 70's. The Blazers just piss me off with their decisions. I think Cho is a step in the right direction though! I do reserve the right to go off about taking Oden over Durant. :)
     
  4. Masbee

    Masbee -- Rookie of the Year

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    In this world that isn't a choice that exists.

    The choices are - Oden healthy and dominating vs. Oden not healthy and either not playing or working himself back.

    There is no healthy and durable and middling performance option.

    If you had the magic powers to grant your wishes come true, why don't you wish for 80 games per year of a dominating Oden?
     
  5. Idog1976

    Idog1976 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we can evaluate Oden's on the court production without factoring in his penis length. After all that has as much to do with the OP's post as your silly nit picking in an attempt to put Oden in the worst light possible. Ie you and half the boards MO when talking about Oden.
     
  6. Idog1976

    Idog1976 Well-Known Member

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    Fixed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2010
  7. Blaz06Draft

    Blaz06Draft Active Member

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    Oden is 1st, at 0.214. LeBron second, 0.203. Not bad, being 5% better than LeBron!
     
  8. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    Because I'm trying to live in a dream world here for a second, I'm not on drugs ...
     
  9. Masbee

    Masbee -- Rookie of the Year

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    Too bad. Now that it's Friday afternoon, what is your excuse?
     
  10. Blazer_Mullet_Man

    Blazer_Mullet_Man Member

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    "your silly nit picking in an attempt to put Oden in the worst light possible"

    Oden does a perfectly good job of this himself by hardly playing (not playing hard, but hardly playing) and carrying himself like he's the most depressed man on the face of the earth.
     
  11. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    gainfully employed?
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2010
  12. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

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    Interesting. Does that consistency hold for both vets and relatively inexperienced players?
     
  13. Idog1976

    Idog1976 Well-Known Member

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    So he's hardly playing when he's out there and racking up a 23.1 per. Um, ok any other basketball knowledge you want to drop on us Mr. Wooden?
     
  14. espn_hall_of_famer

    espn_hall_of_famer Active Member

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    To be perfectly honest, when I tested the deviation from samples sizes of minutes, I just focused on that aspect of it and didn't attept to break the data into separate sub-categories to report out on. So I'd have to "reinvent the wheel" so to speak and add age (years in league) in there to see if that changes.

    Logic would say that the younger you are, the more your PER would go up after the first 500 minutes because you're still on an "upswing". Meaning even if you want to say 500 minutes is a small sample, it is actually more likely that a player will start to acclimate to the NBA style of game from his college mindset and will begin to adjust to officiating and such and a PER would go up. Just an untested theory, but it makes sense.
     
  15. espn_hall_of_famer

    espn_hall_of_famer Active Member

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    Not to drone on analytics too much here. But one more thing I thought I'd mention on sample size. The theory of Oden's 23 PER being a small sample size is really using the .400 theory in baseball. That being that with only 100 ABs, a hitter may only be batter .400, but after time it evens out and they end up batting like .370 or whatever.

    The key is there it is one stat (batting average) that derives from one numerator and one denominator (Hits/AB). So there truly IS a small sample size when you have 40 hits in 100 ABs, both stats are very small. Heck, three good catches to take away hits would make him .370 alone. So that is the example you are trying to use.

    PER uses a large magnitude of statistics to infuse many different statistics into the numerator. You've got things like pts, asst, turnovers, FG%, rebound rate, steals, blocks, free throws, 3-pointers, etc. So the more factors you factor in, the more you smooth out the numerator. So you'd be much more likely to see someone with true small sample sizes have large variances in blocks per minute or assists per minute compared to the norm, than you'd find a guy with a 35 PER (or too far from the norm). That's a product of all of those stats going into the numerator, then still having a pretty sizeable chunk in the denominator like 500 minutes for Oden compared to our 100 ABs for the other example.
     
  16. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

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    There seems to be 2 countervailing forces at work here.

    1 is the mental side of the game - experience/knowledge pushes in the direction of improvement.

    2 is the physical side of the game, as there is no question the NBA season is a more intense physical grind than college ball.

    I seem to recall an article last season that indicated that many of the leagues top rookies saw a drop in their stats, somewhere around the 40-60 games played mark. Obviously, I haven't taken an independent look at the stats, but it does sound reasonable that this would happen.
     
  17. axs88

    axs88 Active Member

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    Been meaning to ask you this for a while... are you John Hollinger? If not, what do you do? This kind of information is not something one comes across from checking basketball-reference.com from time to time.
     
  18. STOMP

    STOMP mere fan

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    to see some real dominance, take a look at the head to head numbers when these two have locked up. Both in college and the pros, it's Greg in an absolute landslide

    STOMP
     
  19. Masbee

    Masbee -- Rookie of the Year

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    I would add one other counterveiling force:

    Scouting.

    When a young player turns out to be good, what ignored no longer is.

    That effect would be compounded, I think, on a team where established stars are already the focus. The opposition is going to spend most of its energy on a Brandon Roy and make Oden prove he can hurt them before they get too excited.
     
  20. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

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    Excellent point.
     

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