Trade Jerryd Bayless

We have too many players. The popular assumption is that this is easily fixed either by trading Rudy (but then, what about the player we get back?) or simply by waiving Patty Mills. Fine, but we also have weaknesses at backup PF and backup PG because (once again with emphasis) Bayless is not really a PG.

We've been having this conversation forever, but it seems to me that the pro-Bayless camp seems to think that his relatively good numbers in the playoffs (combined with Rudy's suckitude) are a reason to hang on to him as our PG in waiting. But that ignores the fact that his good numbers were playing primarily as a scorer, because Brandon was injured. So yes, he's a fairly decent backup SG, except turnover-prone, short and not really an outside shooter. And didn't we just spend big bucks on the bigger, better-defending, better 3 point shooting Wes Matthews?

Crazy as it sounds, I really think we should hang on to Rudy (at least until something better than the shit we've been offered is offered) and try to get something for Bayless. Part of the reason Rudy was so disappointing in his second season (I put it to you) is that he went from playing alongside a guy who knew him like the back of his hand and threw perfect alley-oops to him, to playing alongside a guy with tunnel vision who barely noticed he was there.

The trouble with trading Bayless, though, is that every other team is aware of his limitations. Whenever I try to think of teams that might like him, I just can't. The teams that need a PG need an actual PG. And the teams that need a SG - well, there just aren't that many. The best I can come up with is sad-sack teams like the Cavs who might be desperate for any kind of scoring and excitement, and who might want to unload some veterans who were useful on a championship-contending team, but less so on a rebuilding team. (So, for example, if we could get Varejao for Bayless + ?, I would be ecstatic.)

Another reason I want to get rid of Bayless is that he just doesn't seem to be a "piece" that can work well with another group of players. We saw against the Suns that the right-constructed group off the bench can be greater than the sum of their parts. Dragic, Dudley and Amundson wreaked havoc for the Suns all year and had great chemistry. Whereas I've always seen Bayless as like Corey Maggette: somebody who can fairly reliably put up numbers, but who sort of operates in a vacuum and doesn't really contribute to wins.

Long story short, if there's one player I want moved before the season starts, it's Bayless. But I can't really think of a trade that makes sense to both sides.

 

I didn't give reasons for hanging on to Rudy, so here they are: he is a team player. Maybe that seems ironic giving the whinging we've heard this summer from his agent, but if you watch him play he's almost unselfish to a fault. In fact, I think that's what was hurting him in the playoffs: he was too often thinking of moving the ball rather than simply shooting it (the Mike Miller problem). In watching him over the past two seasons, I think our big men will miss him if and when he goes, because he is one of the few wing players who looks to, and often creatively manages to, feed the post. Watch any Oden or Aldridge highlights reel and I guarantee you'll see at least a couple of very creative feeds/alley-oops from Rudy. But if you see any from Bayless, let me know.

 

No!

 

Bayless has his faults, but remember how terrible he was his rookie season compared to last year. The man is really improving. In a young guy, I look for a few things, and two of the most important are consistent improvement and drive. His FG went up from .365 to .414, his 3pt from .259 to .315, his FT from .806 to .831. His PER went up from 8.2 to 14.3, that's a huge fucking jump and a great sign. His TS from .487 to .534, his per36 rebounds, assists and points all went up while his turnovers went down.

And even if he is not optimal at PG (yet), who would you have back up Miller? Mills? AJ? Mills was total horseshit last year and AJ is a complete unknown. Move Roy over? that's fine for stints, but not over a full season. Rudy? He is a good passer, but has not shown the ability to lead the team, and has already shown that he is not going to be here for the long term.

If a trade comes along that nets us a better or more true PG, I would be open to trading JB, but not to make time for Rudy and certainly not to keep the disastrous Patty Mills.

 

So trade a player who, rather than complaining about not getting minutes, worked on his game to EARN the minutes. Yet we should keep a player who not only does the opposite but plays no defense, can't create his own shot and doesn't want to be in Portland?

Sounds like a great idea.

PG or not, with Bayless gone, who is creating their own shot off the bench?

 

Fuck Rudy.


Get rid of his Euro ass at all cost. I'd much rather trade him for nothing, than Bayless for a "like piece". Hopefully McScribbles will be gone after this year, and Bayless will be able to play more. He has proven that with time, he can produce.

 

This is atrocious reasoning.

You say we should trade Bayless because he was productive and stepped up his game when Roy was out. And we should keep Rudy even though he wasn't productive when Roy was out, because he was missing Sergio?

Wow.

 

You don't trade a player just because you have "too many players". Every team has guys who are going to ride the pine, and they aren't going to like it if they are any type of competitor at all. That's tough cookies. I really feel bad that they have to earn hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars per year to play basketball and rarely get into games.

Every team has the same roster size.
Every team has players who want to play but aren't up to snuff to get playing time.

You don't trade away a good player, to keep a bad one.

 

if Jerryd can improve only half as much over last year as he did from year one to two he'll become a pretty valuable part of this team. The biggest key for him is to continue to improve on his ability to knock down open jumpers. He doesn't need to be Steve Kerr, but dude does need to shoot at least 35% from deep to spread the court. Getting defenders to respect his outside shot not only spreads out the defense to the benefit of the overall offense, but will make his ability to drive that much more effective. And when opposing Bigs have to collapse on his drives they leave their man open for drop down dunks or at least free to feast on offensive boards.

While I don't see now as the time to deal him, I'd move anyone on the roster if the right offer came along. If the offer for Bayless is a future pick (so as to thin the roster a bit), I'm not sure how great Rudy would be guarding PGs if he were to be plugged into JB's minutes void... then again, how great was Steve Kerr at guarding PGs?

STOMP

 

Bayless kind of reminds me of a young Jamal Crawford:
http://www.basketball-reference.com...m=1&p1=bayleje01&y1=2010&p2=crawfja01&y2=2004

But that's Crawford's fourth year (age 23) compared to Bayless' second (age 21).

I love the growth curve Bayless has shown so far, though. I'm definitely in no hurry to unload him.

But if we do make a deal for a true young PG, he's got to be in the package.

 

I’d be open to trading Bayless if we could get a good player in return. Cleveland is an interesting team, if they eventually decide to rebuild maybe we could make a run at Mo Williams. I don’t think Bayless alone would be enough for the Cavs right now, but if that type of deal presents itself than sure we should look into it. I think of Bayless as being at a similar spot to Travis Outlaw a few seasons ago, a valuable contributor off the bench who has some major deficiencies in his game. Not good enough to be a starter but valuable enough to contribute more than roster spots 10-15. The team will still be fine just hanging on to Bayless, especially if there is an injury he will be an acceptable replacement. But as we were able to flip Outlaw for the much more valuable Camby, if a similar upgrade is offered our team should jump all over it.

 

Bingo!

 

I liked how Jerryd played in the playoffs last year (16 PER, 14pts, 4ast, 3reb) and still have a tiny glimmer of hope that he can be our PGoTF. Not ready to give up on him yet, especially given his work ethic.

 

STFU NOOB!

 

I like this idea a lot, but I can't see Lionel Hollins approving. Our only hope is if OJ Mayo somehow has that bozo Heisley's ear and is working to get rid of Conley.

Y'know, I suggested to some Phoenix fans (on the Phoenix version of Blazers' Edge) that they should trade us Dudley for Rudy (when I thought that Rudy was 100% certain gone) because I thought Rudy would work perfectly there and I too thought they had no young SGs. Boy, did I get pissy responses. Apparently not only is Dudley Lord God Almighty, but both Dragic and (get this) Josh Childress are officially SGs in the minds of Phoenix-dwellers. And I really can't see Bayless being their kind of guy, because he's a ball-stopper who needs the ball to be effective. Which brings us to...

I just don't see this. Blake was a player with a skill set perfectly matched with Roy's. He could hit spot up threes, he could bring the ball up and initiate the offense, he didn't care about shots, he didn't need the ball. Maybe that's a damning indictment of Roy, but I think it's true. (Actually I think we ideally need a Bigger Better Blake, which is what I always hoped Koponen was.) Bayless is almost the antithesis of that. He is (I repeat) a ball-stopper with tunnel vision. It would be like having TWO guys isolating at once. Our offense is already ugly enough, that would be the killer.

 

You make a compelling case, but I am uncompelled. I think PER is very flawed, not least because it rates highly players like Zach Randolph and Corey Maggette who are selfish black holes. The 3% I will give you, but .315 is still pretty awful by today's standards.

Ah, hope springs eternal. I continue to maintain that the class of good NBA points who weren't natural PGs when they came into the league consists of { Chauncey Billups, nobody else }.

That is indeed the question. To be perfectly frank, I would already rather have Johnson. He's not a total unknown - I think Bayless's style of play is pretty much still the same as when he was scoring 30 ppg in his first Summer League (as a SHOOTING GUARD, next to my hero, Petteri Koponen), and Johnson was obviously a better PG in his stint in Summer League. And I still remember second round pick Alvin Williams (who, like Johnson and Eric Snow, was the PG on a college team with a more-heralded NBA prospect) starting well from day one.
But that's a risk. My ideal would be (surprise, surprise) either Marcelo Huertas or Pablo Prigioni. Or a healthy Koponen. But there's also the chance of getting a better PG (Mike Conley?) in return. I agree that Mills wouldn't cut it.