Via ESPN and So where Carmelo goes very likely might come down to who he'll sign with. If he refuses to sign an extension with the Nets, he very well could be a Bull.
Ho hum. I am NOT going to get caught up in this drama. If we get 'em, great. If we don't, I'm good. And I will not read one twitter regarding Melo's putting us as 1A or 1B. My self-esteem as a Bulls' fan is not going to be toyed with again. And gosh darn it, I am smart enough, handsome enough and, doggone it, people like me. [video=youtube;S19d_bKbTtM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S19d_bKbTtM[/video]
Heh, actually the 1A thing was from a legitimate article, not a Twitter. Nonetheless, I think this is shaping up to be pretty good. My baseline position on these sorts of things is that very good players typically get to call their shots. Several reports seem to indicate Melo isn't enthusiastic about the Nets even though they've got what seems to be the most favorable offer to the Nuggets. So if history is anything to go on, I think we've got a good shot of both adding a very good player and not giving up the farm to do it.
I know, but the problem is it changes like the direction of the wind during the fall or spring in Illinois. It's the classic, "She loves me, she loves me not" scenario writ large (or maybe, writ very small and trivial, except that it involves hundreds of millions of dollars)! Really, whatever happens, whether the Bulls get Melo or not, and whether it costs Noah or not, I'll follow the team. Obviously the best scenario would be Deng, Taj and a pick or two. If that happens, awesome. But like the article says, Denver is in no rush. If they don't want to be caught up in the "melo" drama, then just tell him to shove it, and if he wants to leave, leave. Cleveland was devastated because they let themselves get played, Toronto, too. No way should they let themselves get backed into a corner. But, if perhaps Chicago could promise compensation to Denver, such as everyone in Chicago promising to vacation in the Rockies this winter or next summer, sign me up.
The Nuggets sound pretty cornered to me already. Articles that describe a team as "clinging to hope" aren't typically cause for optimism. I mean, it's a natural reaction to an impending breakup (Oh, once he hears my sweet voice again, he'll want to stay!), but I don't think it's gonna work.
If I am the Nuggets, I'm not going out of my way to trade Melo for Deng/Gibson/#1. Cap space might be better & highly likely that a similar deal can be found later. Melo ain't going to the Bulls w/o Nuggets help.
I dont think we're getting him and i hope that we dont trade Noah for him. Melo is my fave player (yes im not a lebron lover and i hate kobe) but i wouldnt give up noah for him. Deng at least plays more defense.
I don't know if Anthony for Deng + Noah makes our team any better. But Anthony for Deng + Taj + Asik + Johnson + A bunch of picks certainly does. If we could get the latter I'm all for the trade, but I don't think I'd give up two of our top four players for Anthony. And because of the cap, there is no way we can do the trade without including Deng...so Noah is a no. If Anthony was a more efficient scorer, than it would be a lot easier. But he's not. I thinik Rose, Anthony, Boozer, Noah can have a punchers chance at taking down Miami, but that Rose, Anthony, Boozer aren't good enough.
I know this type of thing is supposed to make me happy or excited -- but all I take away is that if I never see the names "Leon Rose" or "William Wesley" ever again, I'd be a happy man.
^^ Haha i was thinking that too. But I think the bulls should just wait til the trade deadline and see what else they can get. Like I said, Melo is my fav player, but I dont think giving up Noah is worth it. There is also a good read on how good Melo actually is at TrueHoop: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/19970/would-you-deal-joakim-noah-for-carmelo-anthony
FWIW Here's a list of guys who could trivially replace Noah, IMO. Bosh, Stoudemire, Lee, Boozer, Aldridge, Duncan, Al Jefferson, Horford, Hilario, Jason Thompson, Varajao, Camby, Nick Collison, Either Lopez brother, Kaman, Dwight Howard, Okafor, Perkins, Haywood, Dalembert, Gortat. Tyson Chandler would do in a pinch as well. This raises to points. First, if we'd have signed Lee and Boozer, we wouldn't be sweating a deal involving Noah. Second, do you really think it's hard to find a suitable replacement? Wouldn't we be a really good team (better team!) if we had: Melo, Boozer, Chandler vs. Deng, Boozer, Noah? Chandler's a 10/10 guy per 36 minutes, and a good defender. Noah is a 11/11.5 guy per 36 minutes. Seems to me the difference between Melo and Deng makes up for the 1 pt, 1.5 rebound per game.
I'm still pretty firmly in the "don't trade Noah" camp, but I think this is a pretty tangible point. Especially if we're committing a boatload more salary to Noah than we would to those guys. On the other hand, those guys don't exactly grow on trees either, and we'd have no obvious means of acquiring any of those guys.
I agree with Mikedc, I dont want to trade Noah for Melo. I also agree, you made a compelling argument!
Denny: I disagree to a certain extent. First off, I readily acknowledge that a lot of guys on your list may be as "good" as Noah, or roughly equivalent. I think one of the things following the post-championship Bulls has taught me is that a well composed team is worth an additional five to ten wins in and of itself. Once you whittle away the players who are as good, but don't fit as well, you're left with a smaller subset. But all that aside, I think your argument swings two ways. I was talking to DMD the other day, and the thing we settled on with these 'Melo talks is that the Bulls are a strong shooting guard away from being a championship quality team, and that it's not actually that hard to add good pieces to a good roster. The Bulls of championship yore found good, slightly under all-star caliber players in Armstrong and Harper. If Boozer stays healthy and the team players better than the some of its parts, Paxson will be able to find an almost all-star to play guard, be it through the draft, trade or free agency. I know this sounds niave at first, but watching all of those good players give up their summer to play in Turkey (Jesus) and the signing fo the big three in Miami for less than full boat deals . . . players care about things other than money. If you have a good roster, you're going to be able to find a semi-star who is willing to take a pay cut to play on the big stage. If the Bulls sign Melo, they will be able to sign a starting center somewhere in the next two years. But if the Bulls don't sign Melo, we'll be able to sign an offensive orientated two over the next two years. So it's really about what makes the team better now.
SST, My point is that more than 2/3 of the teams have found guys that would be suitable as "adding good pieces to a good roster." The roster being added to would be much better if you have a top 5 type player like Melo rather than a top 20 center (not even top 20 player) in Noah. And I like Noah as much as the rest of you seem to. I just question how rare a player he is or better yet... we'd be better off with the HUGE upgrade over Deng while suffering not so much of a downgrade from Noah.
Denver wants young talent and picks Melo wants a mature team with other star power in a major market I still say that Galinari and Randolph makes the most sense ( with Curry as ballast ) If Melo was dealt for a package such as this ...I like a Chauncey Billups for James Harden + ballast deal K Mart and JR expire and the Nugz have their youth movement in Nene Randolph Galinari Harden Lawson And a bunch of cap space and lottery position to keep building assets
This has always been my feeling too. If the Nuggets trade Melo for Deng and Taj, they are left with a 37 win team without a lot of upside or cap space. They'd almost be better off just letting him walk for nothing, and the odds are pretty good a team would be able to come up with a better offer at the trade deadline. Plus I've heard Stan Kroenke is a slick negotiator. I don't see him being taken for a ride. The Bulls will only get Melo in a 3-way trade.
I think your reasoning is flawed in two ways. 1). Right now, and especially if we trade for Melo, we don't have very many ways to improve our team without giving up good basketball players in return. No expiring contracts, underpaid guys on rookie contracts, etc. So while those guys may be in the league, we wouldn't be able to get them without giving up something else that we'd have to replace. We're probably not going to have very good draft picks for the next 3-5 years, and once we re-sign Rose we'll be right up against the LT. Like SST said, signing guys for below market value is only done when you're already really fucking good. It's a clustering effect. If we trade Deng/Noah for Melo, we're not really fucking good, IMO. Just good. Starting C's don't sign for the MLE for just good teams. 2). While those guys play in the NBA, how many of them are actually available at any one time? The default trade value for a guy is probably for more than what he's actually worth. If the trade is lateral, most teams would rather just stay put. Once you use that filter, how many of those guys are readily gettable? How much do we lose once we trade for them? If we trade Noah, replacing him is going to be an uphill battle.
Who's the starting C for Miami? Doesn't Melo vs. LeBron, Boozer vs. Bosh, Rose vs. Wade seem a lot more even than having Deng vs. Lebron in that sort of match up? Seems like Miami is the team to beat or at least match up with.
