No one is suggesting that such an example exists. If she were willing to behave professionally, it would make no damn difference what her personal convictions are. They are basing their assumptions on her words. The issue isn't whether she's keenly insightful (she clearly isn't). The issue is whether she will intentionally handle things incorrectly and unprofessionally in order to satisfy her personal convictions. She says that's exactly what she is going to do. Maybe you don't believe her? Preemptive strike. She might have WMDs hidden somewhere in the desert - in fact we are sure she does. And she's to blame for 9/11, too. barfo
I think I've finally come around to the notion that if the ACA requires someone to be able to say, "It's perfectly normal and acceptable to be homosexual" in order to be a school counselor, then someone (like Ms. Keeton) who doesn't believe it's perfectly normal and acceptable simply shouldn't be a school counselor. If that is the requirement, then people who disagree with it need to take up the issue with the ACA, not the school.
Why should somebody/anybody need to do to a school counselor to find out if it's "perfectly normal and acceptable to be a homosexual"? There in lies this whole issue with me. It's NONE OF THE SCHOOL COUNSELOR'S BUSINESS IF THEY'RE STRAIGHT, GAY, OR SLEEP WITH ALIENS!!! That said, it IS the counselor's business to help them deal with school-related issues...and solely those.
No it is not. It is a counselor's business to help kids that ask for help, thus improving their school performance. Dealing with all of the issues a young gay person has to deal with, I would hope every single one of them are trained in the best way to help them.
Perhaps you've been living under a rock of late, but you may have noticed the five school children (between 13 and 16) who committed suicide since the school year started because of bullying regarding their homosexuality or the perception there of. That's not even counting the college student. If you're saying this isn't a school issue, you're an idiot. Period. Lets say a student goes to Ms. Keeton in this situation. They have these odd feelings that they don't understand because no one really talks about homosexuality when giving the sex-ed chats that I started getting in the fifth grade. Then other kids are picking on them or even pushing them around and calling them ***s and homos. Instead of saying that something is stupid or annoying, their friends are saying "that's gay." They go to Ms. Keeton saying this and that they are gay and she tells them that they are morally wrong and need to fix their lives. That kid goes home and hangs himself, but Ms. Keeton was the one who tied the rope. The counselor in this case should be the last refuge, and provide the support they're not getting anywhere else.
If I were Ms. Keeton, the first thing I would do is get the student's parents on the phone and set-up a conference with all parties. If the student says that he/she can't talk to their parents about the issue, then I would call in other school officials and get assistance on the matter. In no way should a burden of this nature rest solely on Ms. Keeton's shoulders. Nor, should she attempt to help the student work out their internal feelings.
Then I don't think you know what a counselor does. As the counselor, Ms. Keeton would be the primary contact and support for the student to help him/her reconcile all of the feelings involved with that situation. Not just the issue about defining their sexuality, but working through the bullying. From what I can infer about the ASU case against her, Ms. Keeton would be piling on. There needs to be more than one person involved. The students' teachers need to be made aware of the issue so they know what to look for in class and the halls, same for security officers and other staffers. A peer education group should be set-up for bullying awareness and how students can stop their peers from doing it or so that students can identify what they're doing that adds to the bully's efforts. If there isn't one, a gay-straight alliance group would be a helpful thing to start. Ms. Keeton wouldn't be alone in these efforts, but she would be a central figure in them and the main personal support of the student reporting the bullying as well as that students' main advocate. The ASU faculty are claiming she's incapable of this and rather than put her in a spot to drive another student to suicide, they're throwing her out of the program.
Then, she would be acting entirely unprofessionally. I'm not even close to being a counselor and could tell you that much.
That's roughly what I have been getting at in each of the 12 posts I have made on this topic...I hope you're finally starting to come around that isn't an attack on Christianity, but an attack on someone who would do far more harm than good for a client base in great need.
No, I read them. You're assumption is that, well, she would do more harm than good. And it's purely an assumption. Tried and convicted before the fact. Therefore, let's relegate Ms. Keeton to a (more expensive) private institution where she (and aaall the rest of us) will be "happier". Poppycock.
That's actually the assumption of the highly trained and experienced Ph.D level faculty. You can sort through all of the profiles here, but to summarize, here are the qualifications of the defendants in the case. Dr. Paulette Schenck - MS.Ed in Couseling (South Dakota State University, 1984), Ph.D in Education and HR Studies with concentrations in Counselor Education and Human Development (Colorado State University, 2009). She started working at the Girls Club of Pueblo, CO in 1987 and worked as a high school counselor from 1990 to 1998, and has been a counseling professor since 1991. Dr. Richard Deener - M.Ed in Community Counseling (Lynchburg College, 1998), Ph.D in Counselor Education (South Carolina, 2006). He's worked in various positions involving the mental health issues of children from 1994 to 2003 and has been working in Counselor Education programs since January 2004. Dr. Wayne Lord - Masters in Music Education (South Carolina, 1975), Educational Specialist in Educational Administration (South Carolina, 1990), Ph.D in Educational Administration (South Carolina, 1993). He started as a music teacher in 1972 and moved up to South Carolina's state coordinator for Gifted and Talented Programs before moving to the University level in 2006. Dr. Mary Anderson-Wiley - M.Ed in Special Education (Southeastern Louisiana University, 1985), M.Ed in Counselor Education (University of New Orleans, 1999), PhD. in Counselor Education (University of New Orleans, 2002). She's been all over the place sort of, due to her educational background. First listed job was as a a resource room teacher in 1978 (these classrooms often include professionals with a counseling background), other jobs include special ed teacher and various counseling jobs, starting in 1986 and continuing until 2002 where she started at ASU as a counseling faculty member. Many of her publications and conference presentations revolve around issues of sexuality, teen suicide, and disability. Ms. Keeton isn't learning how to set tables for a dinner service. Counseling is a very high stakes job where one wrong incorrect assessment can see a client walk out of your door and commit suicide. That's a very real thing that we were reminded of regularly in nearly every single one of our classes. I can claim to be more educated in the field than most posters here (I won't say all as I haven't reviewed any of your resumes), but I am no expert in the field. I'll defer to the assessments of her faculty. Additionally, given that Georgia is 70% Protestant and 12% Catholic, I'm willing to bet that Ms. Keeton is not the only Christian in the program and probably not the only who holds those view points against homosexuality. She is probably the only one who has found her way into this predicament because she's unwilling to adhere to professional guidelines (and science) that indicate that homosexuality is a normal behavior across cultures (and species) and is not a disordered way of living.
Should a guy who fails in flight school be given a chance to fly 747s? After all, it's just an assumption that he won't be able to land them safely. The opinions of his instructors shouldn't matter, should they? That's just convicting him before the fact. Does everyone deserve a chance to do any job they want to, no matter whether they are qualified or not? barfo
A better analogy would be: "Should a guy who would easily pass flight school but won't fly with homosexuals on board be allowed to fly a 747?"
Again, you're making the assumption that, because of her personal views, she wouldn't be qualified. Many judges have varying personal views. Doesn't mean they're necessarily unqualified to decide on matters.
As I said previously, the highly trained, educated, and experienced faculty are the ones making the judgments of her qualifications. Barfo and I are just agreeing with them.
According to affidavits in the case her personal views are compelling her to espouse the use of an unethical practice. If she can't or won't act under a professional code of ethics then she can't be qualified as a professional in that field. Judges have different personal views but they are held to a judicial code of ethics, if a judicial candidate breaks or says they'll break that code of ethics than they aren't qualified for the position.
Or better yet: "Should a guy who would easily pass flight school but says he'll drink on the job, violating ethical and safety standards of the profession, be allowed to fly a 747?
