The best educated cities have some of the shittiest public universities around. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/16/the-most-educated-cities_n_649305.html#s115253 Look at the public universities in these areas. The top three have schools that suck. Of the top ten, only #4, #7 and #8 can make the case that people stuck around because of the education. As for Portland, give me a break. It's not held back by poor public universities, it's held back because of its unfriendly business climate. It's an inefficient way to go about it. Once again, you've found a really inefficient way to raise housing values. BTW, you just made the argument that private schools can do the job better than a public one. Your international examples were silly, because those countries finance their university system differently from the US. I'm glad you came around, though. The alternative is that we keep our money and put the burden on paying for educating people on themselves instead of the forced panhandling that goes on now. Why is paying for things directly worse than asking for others to subsidize you?
500 miles away is still California though. I am in California. There simply aren't anywhere enough private universities to provide all the contributions society needs. The cost of an education would be so prohibitive that few would be educated. In fact, we need far more universities than we already have. So they both subsidize tuition in slightly different ways. If the taxpayers of a state want to pay taxes to fund the equivalent of an endowment, it's their right. And all 50 states do it.
OP: Everything you'd ever posted leads me to believe that the right answer in nearly always the opposite of what you post.
And apparently a majority of Californians agree with that, which is exactly why this state is failing and will continue to freefall. Green energy is not "sustainable" on its own and is "the future" of this state thanks to Governor Moonbeam and Gavin Newsom, a fucking idealistic douchebag. Illegals are a huge problem and will continue to be until they crack down on them. The cap and trade will kill California business and industry State has a terrible unemployment rate. The pensions are way underfunded to the point it alone will bankrupt the state. The government is probably the most corrupt and inefficient of any state in the nation. We pay the highest taxes and have the worst schools in the country, the most number of people on government welfare programs, which the state seems to want to ENCOURAGE more people to get on. but yeah, keep on doing the same thing and expecting different results.
Uh, yeah. I got it. It seems to me you missed my point. Again, you're wrong. Universities over the past 30 years have averaged a tuition increase of over 7% while the cost of living has gone up by less than 3% annually. There's simply no reason for that difference in increase. The reason it exists is that so many colleges have no cost control because they can pass on those increases to the students (through subsidized student loans and taxpayers). Colleges have to change the way they educate people and the internet can be a huge cost leveller. Plenty of private schools are showing it can be done (Phoenix, Kaplan, DeVry, Xerox, etc.). Force them to compete in the free market and you'll see costs plummet. Will it also be California's right to request assistance from the other 49 states when it goes bankrupt? I have no problem with it if the state is living within its means, but California is insolvent. To get its house in order, it needs to make tough choices. You really think Berkeley couldn't compete with Stanford or UCLA with USC if both were privatized? That point speaks volumes about your faith in your university system.
mook refuted most of your post with his point about California send out far more in federal tax dollars than come back. As far as cost of tuition increasing, that is the result of governors and state legislatures cutting funding to the schools.
We're going to have to agree to disagree. I saw nothing in his post that refuted my point that California can neither afford nor should subsidize post-high school education. At this point I have to question if you even know what you're talking about when it comes to this issue. Tuition has increased for BOTH public and private universities because they don't have to be cost conscious. Their increases get subsidized by increased limits for student loans and by increased taxes on the population (for public schools).
Oh yeah? http://www.nbc29.com/story/13468987/state-budget-cuts-could-increase-tuition-at-community-colleges Governor Bob McDonnell wants to increase the state's number of college graduates by 100,000 over the next 15 years but with more budget cuts looming some community colleges are wondering how that goal can be reached. As the state works to balance its budget, it may mean a tuition increase at community colleges in Virginia. http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...budget-cuts-worry-university-faculty-students Regent universities are still reeling from $134 million in recent state cuts, Miles said, which reflects a 19 percent drop from the beginning of fiscal 2009. The reductions, among the largest in the nation, have propelled a long-coming shift from public support to tuition revenue as the backbone of school budgets. http://blog.nj.com/njv_editorial_page/2010/05/new_jerseys_public_colleges_ca.html With budget cuts, New Jersey's public colleges need flexibility on tuition increases Starving the schools more is no solution. And given the state’s budget woes, there’s no choice but to lift the tuition cap for one year. The New Jersey Association of State Colleges and Universities told legislators at a recent budget hearing that without a cap, the average tuition would rise 7 percent. While this would put extra strain on students and families, there is little choice, given the state’s budget crisis. http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/07/14/580432/unc-tuition-will-rise-sharply.html UNC system President Erskine Bowles has signed off on tuition increases for the coming academic year, an attempt to mitigate budget cuts recently imposed by the General Assembly. The state budget approved two weeks ago includes a $70 million cut in the university system's budget, which will be spread among the 16 college campuses and the N.C. School of Science and Math, a residential high school. The budget also allowed campuses to increase tuition by as much as $750 to mitigate the effects of the cuts. (if you want to see that it's true for all 50 states, go look it up yourself)
I don't think so. The colleges ARE competing in the free market right now - that's why the cost of tuition is going up. The free market says that a degree from a top-ranked school is worth way more than a degree from, say, Oregon State. The free market says people are willing to pay top dollar for a top end education, and more than that, they are willing to donate back to the school the rest of their lives, sometimes many millions of dollars. So there is a huge incentive for climbing as high in the ranks as you can - and the cost of that is you build new buildings and hire high-end researchers and all that. And then you pass that cost back to the students because they are willing and eager to pay for that high-end education. There is certainly a place for places like Phoenix, but it's an entirely different product they are selling. Phoenix and the UC schools aren't in competition. barfo
I've met a few. some do fine, some don't. bachelor degrees are worthless without work experience or connections, its just a way to get past the automated HR guillotine in many instances. after your first or second job it really doesn't matter where you went to school. diploma mills like U of Phoenix are more expensive I think than UC schools, etc.
Or who admitted to it? There isn't much motivation to name-drop that you went to Phoenix. Doesn't make the cheerleaders run out for smooches. barfo
Super duper. You've gone to a lot of trouble to find a lot of links that all say the same thing--the cost of post high school education continues to outstrip inflation. Universities have a spending problem, not a revenue problem. The government refuses to fund all of the shortfall, so tuition rises. For the record, education is a baseline budgeting item, so when something is "cut" it actually means many times there's a reduction in the percentage increase. Let's stay on topic. I made the statement that when California is going bankrupt, it can't afford to subsidize higher education for a few who will reap the benefit. I heard last night the illegal immigration in-state tuition case will cost California an additional $200MM. It's simply unjustifiable.
Thanks for making my case for me. If the best students flock to the "best" schools and there is no constraint on what they can charge, then why do Californians subsidize world-class institutions like Berkeley and UCLA? And for those that can't get into those schools, why not force the lesser schools (The Cal State Chicos, Northridges, etc.) offer a degree for less of a price? In a non-subsidized world, you'll end up with a stratified system with choices for consumers--high cost, high prestige schools and low cost, value schools. But let's get back on topic, I'm arguing that California can't afford what it wants. It has a wonderful university system that shouldn't require subsidization.
Really? I've met a ton. Most were people that worked for a while after high school, started a family and didn't want to return to school full time.
You mean, why have a middle class? Why not just have rich people and poor people? California has budget problems, certainly. That does not prove conclusively that higher ed should be cut. barfo
That was an interesting logical leap. I think you would find most graduates of Cal and UCLA are middle class. Do you believe there's a reason to have everyone subsidize an excellent product for the few? You've already stated that great colleges can charge what they want. If private universities wish to subsidize students from their endowment, that's their right. I find it harder to demand that the taxpayers of California or any other state subsidize the few that choose to attend these schools.
Didn't the police even stake it out and shoot somebody? What a disappointing police state. Come on, wasn't even a police helicopter used?
My oldest brother did. Got an MBA from Phoenix. I'm absolutely serious. After a year of being unemployed, he started a car repair shop. Again, absolutely serious. It's doing really badly, despite most of his labor coming from his own 15 year old boy genius son (free!). Again, absolutely serious. Goddamn, that guy is a fucking tool. I could go on....
