FBI prevenst car bomb at Pioneer Courthouse Square

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by SlyPokerDog, Nov 26, 2010.

  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    NYTimes a right wing blog?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/m...5a77e9ff&ex=1349409600&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

    2. By the time the American invasion began in the spring of 2003, the toppling of Saddam Hussein appeared to be one of those rare historic moments when the men of force and the men of hope could stand together. For here, in Hussein, was one of the world’s indisputably evil men: he murdered as many as a million of his people, many with poison gas. He tortured, maimed and imprisoned countless more. His unprovoked invasion of Iran is estimated to have left another million people dead. His seizure of Kuwait threw the Middle East into crisis. More insidious, arguably, was the psychological damage he inflicted on his own land. Hussein created a nation of informants — friends on friends, circles within circles — making an entire population complicit in his rule.
     
  2. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    You've used this 3M number before, and I've wondered about the source.

    1) 1M + 1M = 2 million, not 3 million.

    2) A million Iranians + Iraqis died in the Iraq-Iran war, not a million Iraqis. As I said above, I looked it up (in Wikipedia). it's 100-200K Iraqis.

    3) Saddam killed almost a million of his own people? There is no backup. Can you provide a link to that number. Or a link for any number--can you find a statistical estimate (like I provided, and you found faulty for reasons you couldn't articulate), instead of propaganda invented just before the war?
    --------------
    As for poisoning his own people, the Toronto Star summarizes a NY Times article written by a CIA author, just before the US started the war:

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1779.htm

    The New York Times published an opinion piece by Stephen C. Pelletiere, the CIA's senior political analyst on Iraq during the 1980s. In the article, Pelletiere said the only thing known for certain was that "Kurds were bombarded with poison gas that day at Halabja. We cannot say with any certainty that Iraqi chemical weapons killed the Kurds."

    Pelletiere said the gassing occurred during a battle between Iraqis and Iranians. "Iraq used chemical weapons to try to kill Iranians who had seized the town ... The Kurdish civilians who died had the misfortune to be caught up in that exchange. But they were not Iraq's main target," he wrote.

    The former CIA official revealed that immediately after the battle the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency investigated and produced a classified report that said it was Iranian gas that killed the Kurds. Both sides used gas at Halabja, Pelletiere suggested.

    "The condition of the dead Kurds' bodies however, indicated they had been killed with a blood agent — that is, a cyanide-based gas — which Iran was known to use. The Iraqis, who are thought to have used mustard gas in the battle, are not known to have possessed blood agents at the time."
    -------
    That was a summary. Here is the actual NY Times article by the CIA's Pelletriere.

    http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/siteinfo/newsround/iraq2.html
     
  3. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    A similar survey to the Lancet was done just after the invasion and Saddam went into hiding. The people told the pollsters that 3M+ were killed by Saddam, not having anything to do with the Iran-Iraq war.

    Nonetheless:

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13164-new-study-says-iraqi-death-toll-significantly-lower.html

    The death toll in Iraq may be far lower than previously claimed, according to a team working for the Iraqi Ministry of Health.

    The researchers estimate that the number of violent deaths in Iraq between the US-led invasion of March 2003 and the end of June 2006 to be between 104,000 and 223,000.

    This loss of life is described as "massive", but is well below the figure of 600,000 violent deaths claimed by a team of Iraqi and US scientists in autumn 2006 (The Lancet, vol 368, p 1421).

    The Lancet research, led by public health experts from Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland, US, was hailed by opponents of the war as evidence of the huge human cost of the conflict, but attacked with equal force by supporters of the invasion. President George W Bush publicly dismissed the study on the day it was released.

    Larger study

    The methods used to produce the estimate have since come under intense scrutiny although many experts believe the research was as good as it could have been given the dangerous and unstable conditions within Iraq.

    The latest study is, however, likely to increase doubts about the 600,000 figure, not least because the new survey is far larger.

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa0707782

    BACKGROUND

    Estimates of the death toll in Iraq from the time of the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003 until June 2006 have ranged from 47,668 (from the Iraq Body Count) to 601,027 (from a national survey). Results from the Iraq Family Health Survey (IFHS), which was conducted in 2006 and 2007, provide new evidence on mortality in Iraq.

    Full Text of Background...

    METHODS

    The IFHS is a nationally representative survey of 9345 households that collected information on deaths in the household since June 2001. We used multiple methods for estimating the level of underreporting and compared reported rates of death with those from other sources.
    Full Text of Methods...

    RESULTS

    Interviewers visited 89.4% of 1086 household clusters during the study period; the household response rate was 96.2%. From January 2002 through June 2006, there were 1325 reported deaths. After adjustment for missing clusters, the overall rate of death per 1000 person-years was 5.31 (95% confidence interval [CI], 4.89 to 5.77); the estimated rate of violence-related death was 1.09 (95% CI, 0.81 to 1.50). When underreporting was taken into account, the rate of violence-related death was estimated to be 1.67 (95% uncertainty range, 1.24 to 2.30). This rate translates into an estimated number of violent deaths of 151,000 (95% uncertainty range, 104,000 to 223,000) from March 2003 through June 2006.

    http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/memorial/20031210-1116-iraq-executions.html

    The bloodiest massacres of Saddam's 23-year presidency occurred in Iraq's Kurdish north and Shiite Muslim south, but the Gallup Baghdad Survey data indicates the brutality extended strongly into the capital as well.

    The survey obtained Monday, which the polling firm planned to release on Tuesday, asked 1,178 Baghdad residents in August and September whether a member of their household had been executed by Saddam's regime. According to Gallup, 6.6 percent said yes.

    The polling firm took metropolitan Baghdad's population – 6.39 million – and average household size – 6.9 people – to calculate that 61,000 people were executed during Saddam's rule. Past estimates were in the low tens of thousands. Most are believed to have been buried in mass graves.

    The U.S.-led occupation authority in Iraq has said that at least 300,000 people are buried in mass graves in Iraq. Human rights officials put the number closer to 500,000, and some Iraqi political parties estimate more than 1 million were executed.
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    We invaded Iraq in March 2003. Let's call it 8 years. You claim 1M killed by the USA (laughable, but anyhow...)

    1M / (8 * 365) = 342 civilians killed every day for the past 8 years. That'd be 250,000 on Obama's watch alone. I think there'd be a lot more publicity about that kind of dying going on. Use a little common sense.
     
  5. BGrantFan

    BGrantFan Suspended

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    So the 1993 WTC bombing that killed 6 people and injured hundreds of others doesn't count? Not to mention the many overseas bombings from roughly 1983 onward?

    What an idiotic post. I can't take you seriously.
     
  6. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    Cars crush and slash 42,000 Americans year in, year out.

    20,000 die from the flu.

    6,500 Americans drown each year.

    Kitchen appliances electrocute about 200.

    103 crash in commercial airplanes.

    God slays another 60 per year with lightning bolts.

    53 are murdered by bees each year.

    Pet dogs account for 31 deaths per year in the U.S. The Pit bull variety is by far the largest killer of humans, followed by Rottweilers and Huskies. Basset Hounds, Beagles, Dauschunds, Labradors, and even Golden retrievers have all killed humans.

    Horses stomp to death 20 a year.

    Spiders kill 6.5.

    4.5 die on amusement park rides.

    Cougar, Alligators and Sharks (the only US predators that hunt humans in the wild) kill less than 1 each per year.

    Here is a record of every terrorism incident in the US since 1970. click on the red number at the left of each incident for details, fatalities, perpetrator...

    Not what most people think:

    http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search...s_type=&casualties_max=&country=217&count=100
     
  7. Haakzilla

    Haakzilla Well-Known Member

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    ...yet, the the American masses are scared shit-less of this so-called "terrorist threat". Keep drinking the kool-aid America and keep sacrificing your liberties for a false sense of security, especially if your want the republic to fall!
     
  8. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    good to know the Portland Police and mayor had no idea about this shit because they opted out of the Joint Terrorism task force 5 years ago.

    keep portland weird, and uninformed....
     
  9. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    I guess they tried to burn down this guy's mosque.
     
  10. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    We were talking about the current wars causing this terrorism in Oregon, not in Europe.

    Are you aware that "NYC's Twin Towers" = WTC? You're talking about the same incident as I was.

    Speaking of idiotic posts.
     
  11. BGrantFan

    BGrantFan Suspended

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    Yes, "they" did. A computer and a chair are destroyed by the "arsonist".

    Color me skeptical.
     
  12. BGrantFan

    BGrantFan Suspended

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    Keep on your blinders. Perhaps you forgot about the Y2K plot.
     
  13. RR7

    RR7 Well-Known Member

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    I personally like how it says bees murder people. Die from bees, sure. But 53 people murdered by them?
     
  14. Haakzilla

    Haakzilla Well-Known Member

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    What are you skeptical about?

    ...seems like you are the one wearing blinders to me. What Y2K plot are you referring to? Are you saying that the mass hysteria of the potential Y2K computer problem was actually a "terrorist" plot?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2010
  15. Haakzilla

    Haakzilla Well-Known Member

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    ...would it be involuntary manslaughter then? Or perhaps just an accident?
     
  16. BGrantFan

    BGrantFan Suspended

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    I am skeptical that an "arsonist" would go into an office at the mosque and burn a computer. I won't rule out that it is an inside job.



    http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/01/16/millennium.plot.sentence/index.html

    How quickly we American Idiots forget these things.
     
  17. MrJayremmie

    MrJayremmie Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you change your name back to PapaG. I thought you wanted to be banned to stay away from the board.
     
  18. MrJayremmie

    MrJayremmie Well-Known Member

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    Even a duck and a beaver can agree on this.
     
  19. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    First, you said that there have been more plots than the one I listed. You cited exactly the same incident I did, because you don't know that WTC means the same thing as Twin Towers. And now for your big comeback...you accuse me of seeing one more plot than you do (Y2K), after accusing me of seeing one less plot than you (WTC). Which is it, I see too few plots or too many?

    Are you unable to follow the thread due to double vision, or are you just out of your level here on the OT board?
     
  20. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    And here's another plot you imagine, while accusing me of seeing plots where there are none. (I have never thought Y2K was a plot.) Your mindless little one-liners don't work on the OT board. People don't just let them pass here.
     

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