None of those players ever showed the skills that Nic did, and none of them even came close to his effectiveness or efficiency.
Omar Cook - one season as a Blazer. Qyntel Woods - two seasons as a Blazer. Jerryd Bayless - two seasons as a Blazer. Martell Webster - five years as a Blazer. Sebastian Telfair - two years as a Blazer. With the exception of Martell, every one of those guys was gone within two years. We might have had high expectations for Webster, Bayless, and Telfair when they were rookies, but those expectations came crashing down rather quickly. Did anyone think that Webster was still bound for stardom after his second or third season? Nic is coming into his third year. He started most of his rookie season. He's shown real flashes of brilliance, but he still hasn't really produced much. It's all potential, yet most fans would list him as being one of the untouchables on our team, or only tradeable for a star. Would we have listed Webster, Woods, Telfair, or even Bayless in that regard? Sure, most people were pissed about the Bayless trade because we got a shitty draft pick. I still think Nic could be a very good player, but holy shit, some people act as though he's already a three-time All-Star.
How is he effective or efficient? If anything the adjective to describe him is inconsistent. Being inconsistent is neither effective nor efficient.
He has been a close to 50-40-80 player for his career. And I certainly don't need to rehash his PER. And for the right player (all star caliber, with a decent contract, and good fit on this roster), he certainly is not untouchable. No one treats him like " he's already a three-time All-Star." I think you're exaggerating this argument quite a bit.
Effective? Not sure I agree there. He's inconsistent at a time when the team is desperately looking for other players to step up. He's got the tools to be successful, much like Martell Webster. I just hope he hasn't peaked like Martell did early on in his career. I haven't seen any evidence that he's going to make that "next step" from his performance so far this season.
Notice how I said, "untouchable or only tradeable for a star"... If you're only willing to trade a guy for a star with a decent contract, you're treating him like an established star.
Over the last three seasons (yes, including last year when he was mostly injured) he has been inconsistent. 15 games is not a large enough sample size to prove otherwise.
Never let facts get in the way of a good discussion. As you stated very clearly, nobody's talents are taken advantage of in Nate's system other than Roy's. Roy's health and Nate's anal-retentive style drag the entire team down. If Roy would just go away, Wesley Matthews, Rudy and Batum could all get more minutes, and the result would be a style of basketball that even Nate couldn't slow down to the molasses-pace that he (because he's a control freak) and Roy (because it's easier on his knees) prefer to play. It's a very ugly situation that won't get any better until Roy is permanently gone. Only Pritchard would have the balls to get rid of him. Cho will just sit there and collect his checks, as he's been doing since he got here.
Not sure I understand what you're trying to say. He's been inconsistent as an international rookie and as a guy who was injured for most of his sophomore year? Maybe you should take a look at the career paths of similar international players who made the jump: For example, -TP, Peja , or Dirk. And they all gained a sense of "consistency" only during their second and/or third years. But the one common factor they all shared was that their coaches and teams played in a system that was conducive to their success. You brought up the whole argument about how he's overrated, and several others in this thead chimed in that he hasn't "stepped up" or has been "inconsistent at a time when the team is desperately looking for other players to step up." Whereas, the above gamelog I posted shows nearly the exact opposite outside of four anomalies. Sorry. I should have said 48, 38, 81. 50-40-80 was too distorting.
So I take it Cho should buy him out and let his salary hit our cap for 15+ million a year for the next five years? I mean that's pretty much his only option unless Roy takes a medical retirement and that doesn't appear likely right now; if you're thinking that he's tradeable he's not ... in fact he might be one of the most untradeable contracts in the NBA given the balky situation with his knees and the size and length of his contract (to put things in perspective, Gilbert Arenas has a more tradeable contract right now). Hell maybe you're right though, KP might have had the "balls" to waive him and let his deal rot on the balance sheet for years without even the possibility of trading him as an expiring contract in 4 1/2 years, he did a similar thing with Steve Francis.
It's a tough situation for TrailBlazer fans. It sucks that there's going to be several more years before there's any light to the end of this tunnel. These player will all be gone before Roy and his destructive minutes are gone: Joel, Marcus, Rudy, Andre...what we'll have left will be the Toronto Raptors...or worse.
Roy doesn't need to "go away." He can work fine in a system that isn't completely based on forcefeeding him the ball and telling him to work one of one every time down. I'm sure he would actually appreciate the load off.
In that case I'd rather hold on to him and at least get something out of him, even if it's only part-time, and then use his huge 17 million dollar expiring contract in 2015 as a trade asset, or see if he does need to medically retire which would wipe his salary off our of cap number. Waiving him would be the worst of all options.
seriously hes fine if he plays semi off the ball with his right time drives to the hoop. we just need a different offense where it isnt based on him. you know where players actually fucking move. I like nate but fuck he needs to switch it the hell up.... the only thing roy can hurt us on is fast breaks where hes leading the fast break (see NOLA game) or defense
There's what Roy "should do" for the team, and what Roy is "willing to do" for the team. Used "effectively", he's the 8th man in an 8-man rotation. He can shoot and score, and that's it. He's not even a Guard, as he can't dribble any more (you saw him get picked repeatedly tonight, including when we were down by two with a minute to go, thus sealing the game). He can't run Offensively or Defensively. All he can do is shoot the ball. He doesn't get foul calls any more. He's no longer considered a "Star" by referees. This limits him to 10 minutes per game...spot start in an emergency if Matthews and Rudy are BOTH injured. Will Roy play 10 minutes per game? Not a chance. He'd tear the team apart even more than he's already doing. The season is already ruined because of him. His only option is to go away. Nate, Cho and he need to sit down and an ultimatum needs to be made, where Cho tells both Nate and Roy, "Your career is over here. We can't trade you. You can't play even 6th-man minutes. You need to be the 5th Guard on this team which is what your talent level matches. Johnson is the #4 because he backs up Andre. You can't hold Rudy or Wesley's jocks right now. Nothing against you, but, you're dragging down the team insisting on playing like there's nothing wrong with you. We've tried hiding it for 4 years now, but we've been destroyed the two playoff series we've been in, it's cost us a very good G.M. because of playing style philosophy's, we had a player who set the Rookie 3-pt record threaten to go back to Europe because our attempts to do everything we can for your knees has stifled his growth, and you continue to stifle the growth of other players around you. We probably would have drafted Durant if we hadn't been so worried about how many shots Durant would be taking from you. You're a Diva, Brandon...without the talent. Those days are gone. You either except the new role, or we're just going to put you on permanent I.R." Yeah,...Roy will go for that.
