<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KMart @ Jun 9 2006, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1. I noticed an argument saying that Shaq can't score anymore, and only gets dunks off penetration. That is true in a sense, but not how you are looking at it. Last night in the fourth quarter, I believe Shaq got one touch in the final three minutes. During the regular season, Shaq averaged only 13 shots per game. Last night, Shaq got alot of turnovers because he was trying to pass the whole game. Shaq is getting less touches, and trying to involve teammates more, therefore scoring less. Shaq still has his hookshot, Shaq still dunks when angry, but is scoring less simply because he is trying to be a 2nd, perhaps 3rd option in the Heats offense. If you didn't notice how unselfish he was last night, something is wrong. The man is getting the ball less, and passing more. THhat's why he's scoring less, not because his skills are much worse. When he wants to shoot (Ala Game 6 vs. Detroit) Shaq can still do his thing with the best of them.2. Yao Ming better than Shaq? Are you kidding? Yes Yao Ming gets better statistics than Shaq, but thats it. I know that sounds stupid, because "stats tell everything." However, they really don't. In Houston, as a first option, I believe Yao averaged 22 and 11. In Miami, as a 2nd option, Shaq averaged 19 and 9. Imagine if Shaq was relied upon to take as many shots, and shoulder the load as much as Yao Ming? He'd be a definate 24 and 11 threat, the 2 extra rebounds coming from Shaq's ability to rebound his own misses. Plus, Shaq is still a superioir passer to Yao, and if his teammates paid attention last night, he'd have 8 assists to show for it. Both turn the ball over too much, and both are inconsistent from the line (Although Shaq is more consistently horrible). All you've got to do is watch them play, and you see that Shaq influences a game more than Yao, and does more with less.(touches) As mentioned, If you weren't so biased towards the Lakers melo_061, you'd laugh at that statement. If Shaq was still with the Lakers, you'd laugh at that statement. You are just saying that because you clearly have shown a dislike towards Shaq, and continue to push if further.</div>I agree with most things but Shaq's passing superior to Yao's? Yao Ming is a great passer, they just rarely make use of it, when Shaq sees an open shooter he will pass it half of the time, but the fact is that Yao gets better positioning in the post than Shaq does, which means he will not be afraid to take the field goal, even when he is double-teamed, Yao has good passing skills, just the fact that he doesn't want to use it, if you watched Rockets games you would know.
Shaq isn't as dominant as he once was. Sure he'll look good when he's in the right position but he is getting denied the ball alot by players fronting him and etc. His free throw shooting is at an all-time low though he always sucked at the line. There are also turnovers resulting in force feeding him.
Shaq isn't as dominant but is still a force to be reckoned with. Alot of the times he doesn't get the ball in good positioning and has to work for his point and free throw shooting hurts many good centers so I wouldn't take that away from him. All centers are going to get turnovers put Shaq is more prone because of the constant double team on him, it's harder to pass out of a double team then a single person covering you.
He was right when he said because he isn't the young shaq anymore he is slower, but he makes up for it by experience and his knowledge for the game.It's also a great thing that he's putting Dwyane ahead of himself and allowing him to develop as probably one of the top players.
Not really, Yao's has had the better season and is going to go from strength to strength. The fact that Shaq doesn't play any defense anymore makes this comparision easy. Shaq obviously is one of the greatest players of all time, but he's fallen off and is not the best center in the league anymore.I needed to rephrase my statement " Yao had the better season and by next season he's going to better than Shaq'.It's also a great thing that he's putting Dwyane ahead of himself and allowing him to develop as probably one of the top players.Yeh, the other day Shaq said the approach he took with Penny/Kobe wasn't the best one and he's trying another one with wade. Glad to see the big fella finally understood.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo_061 @ Jun 9 2006, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeh, the other day Shaq said the approach he took with Penny/Kobe wasn't the best one and he's trying another one with wade. Glad to see the big fella finally understood.</div>OK, I've had enough of: Shaq's a prick because he didn't defer to Kobe or Penny and lower his egoHere's the thing: I bet you didn't even pay attention to basketball during those times, and bring up the Penny's situation just to make Shaq look worse. What I saw Shaq say on ESPN was:"Young Shaq and Young Penny - Shaq takes over""Young Shaq and Young Kobe - Shaq takes over""Medium Shaq and Young Kobe - Shaq takes over""Old Shaq and Young Wade" - It would be foolish of me not to let DWade take over"The arguments between Shaq and Penny / Shaq and Kobe were that - Kobe and Penny always wanted to be the number one guy over Shaq. This made Shaq angry, because up until his last year in LA, he was clearly the better player than both those guys. Both of them always tried to shine over Shaq, when Shaq was clearly the way to winning. I read it in Shaq's book, we all read how Phil said Kobe didn't listen, and that's why Shaq was angry.In Phil's words, which you use so often to bail yourself out: "If you tell Shaq to do something, he'll whine and moan, but do it. If you tell Kobe to do something, he'll say 'yes' and then go the other way"It's like if Scottie Pippen didn't defer to Michael Jordan. Michael would always be the best way to winning, but Scottie would rather be the top dog so he gets the spotlight. That's what happened with Kobe and Shaq. I watched a classic game today (Lakers vs. Detroit, Game 2, 2004 NBA Finals) and Kobe Bryant would not give the ball to Shaq. Instead, he opted to shoot a 26 foot three pointer with 3 minutes left and shoot fadeaways. We all remember his dunk, we all remember the game-tying three, but besides that he was forcing shots he didn't need to, and would not pass to Shaq. That's what pissed Shaq off - is that throughout both Kobe and Penny's career they would not defer to him just because they wanted to be the guy who gets the fame. Why should Shaq defer to Kobe or Penny, if in both situations he was a much better player? The only time one of their skills neared Shaq was during the 02-03 season when Kobe averaged 30 PPG, but that?s only because Shaq was injured allot. In that same year, the Lakers were under .500 until Shaq came back, yet even when they started winning because of Shaquille's influence, Kobe was still being a selfish ball-hog. Come playoff time that year, even a year later in 2004, Shaq was the man. Against Detroit that Finals, Kobe had the worst series of his life, shooting under 40% if I'm not mistaken, and 27% one game, yet he still regularly chucked up more shots than he should have taken. That's what pissed Shaq off, and it would piss anyone off.The reason Shaq is deferring the ball to Dwayne, is because Dwayne is clearly the Miami Heat's best shot at winning. Because of this, Shaq is giving the ball up to him on a consistent basis. Reverse the roles, Kobe and Shaq, and Kobe would never give the ball up to Shaq. We all saw it, and all you Laker fans will admit that Kobe has always been selfish.Yes, perhaps Shaq shouldn't have taken it to the media, but at the same time, both Kobe and Penny have always treated him like dirt. I read about how Penny didn't talk to Shaq in the locker-room, I read about how Kobe blantley called him a "mothafucka" during a practice for no reason. You asked: "Why is Shaq a good teammate? He's fought with Van Axel, Eddie Jones, Kobe, Penny, his coaches"Well the answer is simple: Because besides those select few, the hundreds of other teammates he's had that treat him with respect on a consistent basis have all taken him as a friend, and a leader in the locker-room. All he does is set people straight, and make them better players. He is a funny individual and obviously pretty easy to get along with.You are biased to a point of stupidity my friend. If Dwayne was passing up Shaq every time to shoot 20 foot-jumpers, you'd call him stupid. Well, that's what Kobe did allot throughout his run with LA, yet you stick by him. You said Dwayne had a "horrible game" because he only shot 11-25 for 44%, but that's what Kobe shot on average per game this year. I don't even know what to say anymore. You give no reasoning at all, and you just keep out throwing random bullsh**. The Great Wiz of Slam 3 said, and I quote:"Without opinions and proof, your posts mean nothing. If you don't feel like proving your post and putting some time in with some meaningful insight, F*ck off because you are worthless"I swear, if I see another:"Shaq is better than Yao (End post)""Shaq will be better than Yao (End post)""The Spurs will win it all, The Pistons their finished (End Post)"from you I'll kill myself. Your opinions haven't changed a smudge from when you first joined this board last year. You keep throwing out the same sh*t even when countless members prove you wrong. When someone pawns me, I learn from it and become smarter. When someone pawns you, you forget about it and proceed to masturbate to Kobe. It's pissed me off so much, and I've had it with your ignorant bias.I know I'm not supposed to insult you, being a "Global Moderator" and all, but I've tried, and I've now had enough.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>You asked: "Why is Shaq a good teammate? He's fought with Van Axel, Eddie Jones, Kobe, Penny, his coaches"Well the answer is simple: Because besides those select few, the hundreds of other teammates he's had that treat him with respect on a consistent basis have all taken him as a friend, and a leader in the locker-room. All he does is set people straight, and make them better players. He is a funny individual and obviously pretty easy to get along with.</div> Exactly, when you have an outspoken megastar like Shaq who knows how great he is he's going to have problems with a few guys but by and large his teammates now and old love him. It's like me, I am a big poster and I know how great I am for this board so i'm going to have problems with some people but by and large people like me. Good points KMart.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KMart @ Jun 10 2006, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>OK, I've had enough of: Shaq's a prick because he didn't defer to Kobe or Penny and lower his egoHere's the thing: I bet you didn't even pay attention to basketball during those times, and bring up the Penny's situation just to make Shaq look worse. What I saw Shaq say on ESPN was:"Young Shaq and Young Penny - Shaq takes over""Young Shaq and Young Kobe - Shaq takes over""Medium Shaq and Young Kobe - Shaq takes over""Old Shaq and Young Wade" - It would be foolish of me not to let DWade take over"The arguments between Shaq and Penny / Shaq and Kobe were that - Kobe and Penny always wanted to be the number one guy over Shaq. This made Shaq angry, because up until his last year in LA, he was clearly the better player than both those guys. Both of them always tried to shine over Shaq, when Shaq was clearly the way to winning. I read it in Shaq's book, we all read how Phil said Kobe didn't listen, and that's why Shaq was angry.In Phil's words, which you use so often to bail yourself out: "If you tell Shaq to do something, he'll whine and moan, but do it. If you tell Kobe to do something, he'll say 'yes' and then go the other way"It's like if Scottie Pippen didn't defer to Michael Jordan. Michael would always be the best way to winning, but Scottie would rather be the top dog so he gets the spotlight. That's what happened with Kobe and Shaq. I watched a classic game today (Lakers vs. Detroit, Game 2, 2004 NBA Finals) and Kobe Bryant would not give the ball to Shaq. Instead, he opted to shoot a 26 foot three pointer with 3 minutes left and shoot fadeaways. We all remember his dunk, we all remember the game-tying three, but besides that he was forcing shots he didn't need to, and would not pass to Shaq. That's what pissed Shaq off - is that throughout both Kobe and Penny's career they would not defer to him just because they wanted to be the guy who gets the fame. Why should Shaq defer to Kobe or Penny, if in both situations he was a much better player? The only time one of their skills neared Shaq was during the 02-03 season when Kobe averaged 30 PPG, but that’s only because Shaq was injured allot. In that same year, the Lakers were under .500 until Shaq came back, yet even when they started winning because of Shaquille's influence, Kobe was still being a selfish ball-hog. Come playoff time that year, even a year later in 2004, Shaq was the man. Against Detroit that Finals, Kobe had the worst series of his life, shooting under 40% if I'm not mistaken, and 27% one game, yet he still regularly chucked up more shots than he should have taken. That's what pissed Shaq off, and it would piss anyone off.The reason Shaq is deferring the ball to Dwayne, is because Dwayne is clearly the Miami Heat's best shot at winning. Because of this, Shaq is giving the ball up to him on a consistent basis. Reverse the roles, Kobe and Shaq, and Kobe would never give the ball up to Shaq. We all saw it, and all you Laker fans will admit that Kobe has always been selfish.Yes, perhaps Shaq shouldn't have taken it to the media, but at the same time, both Kobe and Penny have always treated him like dirt. I read about how Penny didn't talk to Shaq in the locker-room, I read about how Kobe blantley called him a "mothafucka" during a practice for no reason. You asked: "Why is Shaq a good teammate? He's fought with Van Axel, Eddie Jones, Kobe, Penny, his coaches"Well the answer is simple: Because besides those select few, the hundreds of other teammates he's had that treat him with respect on a consistent basis have all taken him as a friend, and a leader in the locker-room. All he does is set people straight, and make them better players. He is a funny individual and obviously pretty easy to get along with.You are biased to a point of stupidity my friend. If Dwayne was passing up Shaq every time to shoot 20 foot-jumpers, you'd call him stupid. Well, that's what Kobe did allot throughout his run with LA, yet you stick by him. You said Dwayne had a "horrible game" because he only shot 11-25 for 44%, but that's what Kobe shot on average per game this year. I don't even know what to say anymore. You give no reasoning at all, and you just keep out throwing random bullsh**. The Great Wiz of Slam 3 said, and I quote:"Without opinions and proof, your posts mean nothing. If you don't feel like proving your post and putting some time in with some meaningful insight, F*ck off because you are worthless"I swear, if I see another:"Shaq is better than Yao (End post)""Shaq will be better than Yao (End post)""The Spurs will win it all, The Pistons their finished (End Post)"from you I'll kill myself. Your opinions haven't changed a smudge from when you first joined this board last year. You keep throwing out the same sh*t even when countless members prove you wrong. When someone pawns me, I learn from it and become smarter. When someone pawns you, you forget about it and proceed to masturbate to Kobe. It's pissed me off so much, and I've had it with your ignorant bias.I know I'm not supposed to insult you, being a "Global Moderator" and all, but I've tried, and I've now had enough.</div>Probably you're longest post on this board and it was for me? Im'honoured :happy0144: . But yet again it was a worthless post and you failed at trying to sound intelligent. You basically came up with the obvious and only focussed on stuff which bolster you're argument.1- The first part you rip kobe because he didn't listen and then you say Shaq will moan when told. If you read that book correctly you would've read that Phil said he ignored Shaq's faults to the best of his ability because he was the main player in the triangle. He also said he tried to find faults in kobe and never gave him a chance. With that being said, they were both children but the fact that kobe got most of the blame for working his but off whiltst shaq got off with getting surgery in company times sounds like injustice.2- We all know kobe played stupidly during that series but he was also one of the major reasons why they were even therre.3- You bring up the point where kobe swore at Shaq for no apparent reason. What about when Shaq hit kobe? I read the other day a testimony from Tex winters and he said that Shaq one day in the lockeroom just started blazing kobe with as he said hurtful words". He said kobe brushed it off and ignored it. Now since you brought up once instance which made kobe made but there are plenty of times where Shaq did kobe harm. Now by you're logic, shaq's an ***hole.4- Dwayne had a bad game, period. 11-25 in wade's world is a bad game. 1-6 in the 4th quarter is bad. Having 6 to's in a game is bad. You put them together and you get a bad game.5- I already made a thread a couple of months ago when i stated the reasons why Yao is better. There was no point in me wasting my time explaining why i think so.6- You say Shaq is a good overrall team. That is true, he probably is. But he's only good to you when you listen to him, once you don't agree with him he leaves you out. I'm tired with people like you who listen to espn. Isn't ironic that all you're favourite players get fellated on espn daily? I think not. I'm tired going into forums and hearing kobe ran shaq out of town or it was kobe's fault the dynasty collapsed. I'm tired of people like you who constantly call out kobe for being a pain in the 3 peat when Shaq was just as harmful. I'll find you all the times where Shaq called out kobe for no apparent reason. Untill then, keep on fellating Lebron James and steve nash :happy0144: . I go into every thread and all i here is you calling kobe a prick, selfish and then in another thread praising Shaq. I think that shows ignorant bias considering you have admitted you hate Kobe.edit: Why would i have to explain evrything i say? It's logic to say the pistons are finished considering all signs point to it. There not going to win a championship, there all getting older and they have no replacement for ben wallace. They have no bench and their coach is not good. If you cannot bring two and two together than it's not my fault.And one more thing, you really need to get some new content. You're posts are boring and repetitive and i've read it all before. You could've atleast copied you're argument from a previous thread. I'm 100% sure at one point or another you've pointed out to me all those points. I want my 2 minutes back that you stole from me.You are biased to a point of stupidity my friend. If Dwayne was passing up Shaq every time to shoot 20 foot-jumpers, you'd call him stupid. Well, that's what Kobe did allot throughout his run with LA, yet you stick by himLol, if you actually believe during the 3 peat that Kobe passed up Shaq to shoot 20 footers alot then you my friend are an idiot. Over the past couple of days i have Lakers vs net game 1, lakers vs kings game 3, lakers vs blazers game 7 and in no way in those games has kobe passed up Shaq alot to shoot 20 footers. Now those are 3 games but i have never seen kobe shoot 20 footers alot with Shaq on the court unless he's feeling it. Actually i have in 2004 but before that, it didn't happen alot. Stop lying.And here's a quote from the biggest kobe hater on this world, Bill simmons.Shaquille O'Neal: Everyone thinks that Kobe demanded his own team, which was why Shaq ended up getting traded. Actually, this is only half-true. Shaq was woefully out of shape for the 2002-03 season -- although he had just won three straight titles and was probably Kobe'd out, so I can't totally blame him -- then pushed for a lucrative extension that summer even though he had two more years remaining on his contract. Faced with a power struggle between their two superstars, as well as a gigantic financial commitment to Shaq, the Lakers panicked and stupidly held a fire sale (getting 45 cents on the dollar for him). Then Shaq deflected any local blame in Los Angeles by blaming Kobe and declaring war on him, one of his smartest political moves and yet another reason why Shaq needs to run for office some day. It wasn't nearly as sleazy as the Riley/Mourning things, but it was still a little slimy. And remember, he did the same thing to everyone in Orlando.I guess Shaq is the angel and Kobe and Penny are the devils.
Have you ever thought that you are the one sounding stupid? There's a reason I'm winning MVP Poster awards and every moderator on this board thinks you are one of our dumbest members. I remember Phil Jackson actually saying that Kobe would never do what he said. Maybe Phil said he never gave Kobe a chance, but that doesn't change the fact Kobe never did anything Phil asked. It was published through the media, and in Phil's book. Is Kobe disobeying Phil "Not giving him a chance"? No, it's Kobe being a dickwad. Never questioned that. Kobe was always a major reason the Lakers had success, but he was also a major problem within stretched of games with his selfish play and horrible shot selection. Wait, Shaq getting mad at Kobe in a lockerroom? That can mean one thing: Pre-Game or Post-Game. Since Tex didn't say it was for "no reason," Shaq was probably blazing at Kobe for something to do with his shot-selection, selfishness, or something along those lines. That's actually what a good leader is supposed to do: Set his teammates straight, no matter the cost. Then again, I am just guessing as to what happened, but you my friend, are as clueless as I in that regard. Yea he had a bad game, I won't lie. However, some of that is misleading because he was sick with the flu, and more importantly hadn't played basketball on a consistent basis the past week. However, I agree, he had a bad game. (Notice me admitting I was wrong, something you don't do) Hence why you are considered by many to be ignorant and dumb. You think people actually remember every post you make. That's why I explain myself everytime: No one remembers my posts, or your posts, or Balla's posts, or Dogma's posts What's the point of a leader is you don't listen to him. You are saying that Shaq is only good to you when you "Listen to him"? F*ck basketball. In real life, if someone never listens to you, are you going to like them? If everytime you tell your friend - "Give me my homework, I'm sick from school", and they never do, will you get angry at him? These people are human beings, and Kobe never listened to Shaq. 23 year-olds are supposed to listen to 30 year-olds in the NBA, it's just how it goes.On Kobe: That's the thing, even though I hate Kobe, I'm not a "Hater". Haters are the people that say: "Kobe was selfish when he scored 81" Haters are the people that say: "The Lakers lost because Kobe passed the ball" I hate Kobe because he is a prick, and he is selfish. During the Suns series, when he was treating his teammates like angels and passing the ball, I made a thread called:I am falling in love with Kobe BryantI hate Kobe for reasons, I don't just hate him. That's the thing, it's not logic, it's your logic. Logic that is not shared by many people on this board. It's because every post I make shuts you down. I've read this whole thread and you've done absolutely nothing to justify your argument. If anything, you've even benifitted my point of view. Alright, and? I never said it was all Kobe's fault. Even though Shaq was being a leader, trying to have total control, at times he wouldn't let Kobe even have a smudge of that, and that's why Kobe even started being a prick in the first place. Kobe was always trying to be too much, and Shaq was always trying to stop him. It was both their faults, I admit that. I've always thought that. However, you are always saying it'sAll Shaq's FaultWhich is what pissed me off. It wasn't all Shaq's fault. It wasn't all Kobe's fault. It wasn't all Penny's fault. It was both their fault, in every situation. Now listen. Don't you dare insult me because I watch ESPN. You live in Australlia, you don't even get ESPN. If anything, I take the least from ESPN than any member here. People are talking about how DWade, Kobe, and Paul Pierce are great defenders because ESPN reported it - I say they are inconsistentCB4 says Emeka Okafor is not a good offensive player because it is widely reported in the media - I say he's a good offensive playerESPN said the Knicks could make the playoffs - I said they couldn'tI have opinions, and while ESPN is the basis for many of them, I am not dominated by it. Either way, you can't say sh*t to me about that because you've never seen Sportcenter everyday. If you have, I am sorry, I am mistaken. However, don't go insulting me because I am able to see sports on television, more-so than you. I can tell you really like basketball, and you would give anything to get ESPN, NBA TV, and Fox Sports Net. Don't insult me just because I get basketball channels on TV. How low are you willing to go just to insult me? Wow.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>CB4 says Emeka Okafor is not a good offensive player because it is widely reported in the media - I say he's a good offensive player</div> Yep, good point,i've been saying the same thing...15ppg as a rookie for a 'raw offensive' player, not too bad. Melo = pwned :dribble:
15 ppg is not too good when every possession revolves around him. It's not that impressive. He can't and his post moves aren't that good, and he is not the most athletic player.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jun 10 2006, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>15 ppg is not too good when every possession revolves around him. It's not that impressive. He can't and his post moves aren't that good, and he is not the most athletic player.</div> Oh yeah...considering you watched Emeka Okafor so much his rookie season.
Ok, you got me on a few stuff.1- You said Kobe never listened to Phil? I guess you got this out of the Last season, a book which chorincled the last season with the lakers. During the 3 peat, Kobe went from the scoring machine in the playoffs to second fiddle in the finals. I agree the arrogance when kobe started disobeying phil began most likely in the last 1 season and a half but let's not forget kobe bryant played second fiddled to Shaq for 4 seasons. If kobe didn't listen that the triangle would not work considering kobe is the main ball handler.2- About the pistons series, I and everyone knows how bad kobe played. You've already stated that other threads. Again, it's repetitive.3- That's false, i do admit i'm wrong on a few issues, for example me not thinking Dwight howard is a beast. Or me not thinking Dirk was top 3 material. Or me not thinking Phil jackson is the greatest coach of all time.Or me thinking Kwame was useless. There's a plenty a time i say i'm wrong but it doesn't happen to often4- There's no point to argue here, i came into this thread saying Shaq dominated Weak East centers in the league which is 100% correct5- I actually do have Espn and sportscenter but they show useless games during the season, it only became intresting in the playoffs. I just found it strange that all your favourite players are constantly praised on espn. It was just a statement that passed off as a fact. I always do that, i need to cut down on that.I have opinions, and while ESPN is the basis for many of them, I am not dominated by it. Either way, you can't say sh*t to me about that because you've never seen Sportcenter everyday. If you have, I am sorry, I am mistaken. However, don't go insulting me because I am able to see sports on television, more-so than you. I can tell you really like basketball, and you would give anything to get ESPN, NBA TV, and Fox Sports Net. Don't insult me just because I get basketball channels on TV. How low are you willing to go just to insult me? Wow.Honestly, the internet has became much more useful to me than televeision latley. For the last 2 months of the season, i caught around 15 laker games from streams around the internet. It would be bettter if i could see it on television but i'm not complaining nor i'm i dying.And i will reiteriate what i said before, you're points on this topic are repetitive and boring. It's like that because in every kobe/laker related thread you bring up the same points. Next time point out you've already posted those opinions somewhere so i can skim throught you're posts.Thank you.
My points are repetitive? HaHaHaHaHa.Melo, there is a reason BigMo, an 18 year old and perhaps the best debater on this board told me he was surprised by my age, and that I really know basketballMelo, there is a reason I won MVP Poster last monthMelo, there is a reason Moderators on this board think you are a "mediocre member"When I was 14 and posting on Slam3, I learned from several incredibly knowledgable basketball people. Alot of their opinions are similar to mine today, because I saw how right they were.At your age, you are disagreeing with everything I saw, even though it's clear I have proved you wrong in every aspect.I've had enough, and I'm not looing at this thread again. I apologize to my fellow staff members for creating this argument. I have wasted my time on this ignorant 14 year-old, who is easily more immature than my 12 year-old sister.
Well your comments on this subject are repetitive. I've read them all before and you did waste my 2 minutes reading them again.And aren't you the same guy who said the person who starts insulting is losing the debate? Goodbye and i still want my time back.And how old are you? 15?
Ive been gone for the weekend and I noticed this topic has become pretty popular, Ill respond to the points you guys made tomorrow..
Shaq is no longer the man. Dampier outplaying him shows that Shaq's time of being the man in over. He has been a great player but his age and weight have caught up to him.
Why is he considered the most dominant ever? Were fans and media members considering him the MDE before he started his own campaign to claim that title?I personally don't think he's the MDE. If for no other reason, his competition at the center position has been weak. Now that isn't Shaq's fault that he played most of his prime during one of the weakest eras for centers, but it can't be ignored. If he truly is the MDE, I'm inclined to think his numbers should be better than what they are or were in his prime form. How often did Shaq lead the league in rebounding? How often did he lead the league in block shots? Was Shaq ever considered to possess the defensive presence of say a Russell or Hakeem? How many first team all defenses did Shaq make? You would think since he's going up against guys like Mutombo, Bradley, and an undersize Alonzo Mourning during his prime there wouldn't be a question in anyone's mind that he's the MDE. Going up against that competition, not to mention catching guys like Ewing and Sabonis on their down slide, his numbers should be through the roof.Could Shaq have flourished in the golden era of centers, which in my mind would be the 70's and 80's? Yes, without question I think he could have. How much of an impact would he have made? I don't know, but he would have made an impact. I don't want to take anything away from Shaq, because I've never seen anything like the Orlando Magic Shaq. A man of that size and strength able to move the way he moved with such speed and quickness... truly impressive. Also, the Laker Shaq was impressive as well. However, you're only as good as your competition. How great would Ali be considered, if he only fought guys from the local YMCA? That's a bit of an exaggeration, but you get my point. You are measured by your competition, and Shaq's competition at the center spot during his prime is just not impressive. Which brings me back to my original point. Why didn't he REALLY dominate? Why aren't his numbers more overwhelming?I give him a pass on the points, because as a center you have to rely on someone actually giving you the ball. That's why I don't think a center can ever be considered the greatest player of all-time, but that's another thread. So he gets a reprieve for points, but rebounding and block shots are no excuse. Every year of his prime he should have led the league those categories. It can't go without saying that at times, during his prime, watching Shaq rebound and play defense he would often look extremely disinterested. The same can be said now. No one was scared to drive the lane on Shaq because he was considered a beast of a defender, they were scared because of his size and fear of being hurt. What player has gotten away with more flagrant fouls than Shaq?Maybe Shaq relied too much on his size and it jeapordized other parts of his game. At least the improvement of those parts. I'm almost positive that this is the case. Have you ever wondered why Shaq can only function on the very low block? His game hasn't evolved offensively. "Me Shaq... You smaller... I run over you and score." Is and was his offensive philosophy. Why not add a more moves to the arsenal? All the great centers did. Among their many offensive moves Hakeem had the Dream Shake, Kareem had the Sky Hook, even Wilt developed a deadly bank shot later in his career, where is Shaq's move? Especially considering his age and deterioration, he has nothing to turn to make the game easier for him. Did you guys see that fadeaway jump hook in game 2? EWWWW, ugly.My theory, as I mentioned earlier, is that Shaq relied too much on his size and strength. Really believing he was Superman and thinking he could play that way forever. All the greats evolve as they age. Shaq hasn't. No one is saying that he had to become a finesse player much like Ewing did, but a little more variety in his offensive game would be doing him some good in these here Finals, that's for damn sure. I also think that since his competition was subpar, he really had no true motivation to improve offensively and defensively. All of that probably led to complacency as well. It's too bad, because I would have loved to have seen him motivated by guys like Moses Malone, Kareem, a young Hakeem, and so on and so forth. Instead, he had Rik Smits, Vlade Divac, and Mutombo as speed bumps. Yeah Shaq, stay on that practice court big fella, because those guys are downright frightening plain . No disrespect to them, but come on.Lastly, and I'll end my Shaq rant. I still like the guy, although not as much as I use to. I use to be one of those people that felt like KG, who once said, "If you don't like Shaq, there is something wrong with you." Now I understand the people who don't like him. I'm sick of his self indulgence. I'm sick of his leaving his teammates out to dry by not talking to the media after he has a bad game. I've never seen or heard of Bird, Magic, or Jordan doing that. I'm sick of his immaturity, and his childish pouting. I'm sick of his "give me the credit when it's going good, blame someone else when it's not" attitude. So with that I'll end my Shaq rant, a player who is not the most dominant ever.Written by phenom from ign
