No Comments on the "Dream Act" Passing the House last night?

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by oldguy, Dec 9, 2010.

  1. oldguy

    oldguy Well-Known Member

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    My first outrage over this act has to do with how it is being enacted with very little reporting on it to the people. A huge majority of the citizens of the US are against any kind of amnesty, yet I didn’t get any newsletters from my congressmen, I didn’t read about it in the Register Guard. Was there any reporting on this in the Oregonian? Did anyone see it on network news? I don’t watch every day, but I never saw it. I mentioned it passing the House to 7-8 co-workers, and none of them had any idea it was even being considered. These were all professional people that take an interest in politics.

    Here are my specific concerns about the DREAM Act (DA):
    First and foremost, the DA does nothing to stop further illegal immigration into the US. It merely gives some illegals a path to citizenship. Show me some legislation that stops the illegal crossing of our southern border, THEN come and tell me about how to help out the youngest of the illegals. I’m not interested in one damned thing to help illegals until the government stops the tidal wave of people coming here illegally. End of discussion, for me.

    The DA gives illegal aliens access to federal Pell grants. Personally, since so many actual citizens cannot afford college, this is absurd. Why should non-citizens get government loans? I have zero interest in spending even more money supporting people that come here illegally.

    They talk of the potential for 2,000,000 illegals to gain legal status under this legislation. The DA seems to be open-ended, and specifically states that there are no numerical limits on the number of people it might legalize. Unless the swarming of illegals coming here are stopped, this will be a never ending process.

    The DA requires that the alien has been physically present in the United States for a continuous period of not less than 5 years immediately preceding the date of the enactment of this Act and was younger than 16 years of age on the date the alien initially entered the United States. How many of these folks can document that? How picky will the liberal US government be about that documentation. Will they form ACORN type groups to help bastardize the process and defraud the government by helping illegals that can’t meet the requirements of the act? Hard to believe they wouldn’t.

    The hardship section will be a catchall for those that can’t meet the requirements. The Secretary of Homeland Security will create the administrative rules for how the bill will be implemented. That’s when most folks will find out what this all really means.

    The idea that the illegals will pay up their back taxes is ridiculous, as they are undocumented. Let’s have a show of hands for who thinks illegals will admit to all the money they owe taxes on, when that can’t be traced?

    It feels like nothing more than yet another means to incrementally legalize illegal aliens. Not only that. If an illegal does gain the path to citizenship, then does something to lose that status, they are not deported, they merely return to an illegal status. Whatever.

    The US is already in debt up to our great-grandchildrens’ asses. Why would we want to continue to spend money to support and educate a population that takes our jobs in a time of record unemployment for our own citizens?

    Go Blazers
     
  2. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    That doesn't seem to be the case:

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/145136/Slim-Majority-Americans-Vote-DREAM-Act-Law.aspx

    barfo
     
  3. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    How, exactly, do you propose the government does that? We already spend $10 billion/year on border security, up 55% in the last 4 years. How much more of your tax money do you think we should throw at the problem, and how effective do you think more money would be at stopping border crossings?

    barfo
     
  4. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    Throw LESS money, not more.

    If the border is not treated like a line drawn in the sand, it is meaningless and will never be respected.

    The only countries that have no illegal immigration problems are the countries that insist on respect for their borders.

    For a couple million dollars per year the government could position enough snipers at the dozen or so main crossing sites that within a few months of media coverage of the slaughter Mexicans would completely abandon the notion of attempting illegal border crossings into America.

    It's truly that simple.
     
  5. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Can we do the same at the CA/OR and WA/OR borders too? I don't like them Californians and Washingtonians stealing our jobs and peeing in our toilets.

    barfo
     
  6. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    Results for this Gallup poll are based on telephone interviews conducted Dec. 3-6, 2010, on the Gallup Daily tracking survey, with a random sample of 1,003 adults, aged 18 and older, living in all 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia, selected using random-digit-dial sampling.

    For results based on the total sample of national adults, one can say with 95% confidence that the maximum margin of sampling error is ±4 percentage points.

    Interviews are conducted with respondents on landline telephones (for respondents with a landline telephone) and cellular phones (for respondents who are cell phone-only). Each sample includes a minimum quota of 150 cell phone-only respondents and 850 landline respondents, with additional minimum quotas among landline respondents for gender within region. Landline respondents are chosen at random within each household on the basis of which member had the most recent birthday.

    Samples are weighted by gender, age, race, education, region, and phone lines. Demographic weighting targets are based on the March 2009 Current Population Survey figures for the aged 18 and older non-institutionalized population living in continental U.S. telephone households. All reported margins of sampling error include the computed design effects for weighting and sample design.

    In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls.


    Garbage in, garbage out.

    One in 50 households are so poor they have no phone at all.

    Additionally, the tens of millions of homeless are nearly all phoneless.

    For quite obvious reasons of self-preservation, the vast majority of these unpolled people are opposed to the Dream Act.
     
  7. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    It's clear you are not up to an adult debate on the subject.
     
  8. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    One in 50 households is only 2%.

    The number of homeless in the US is not tens of millions.

    barfo
     
  9. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    What's the difference? You don't like Mexicans, I don't like Californians. It's ok with me if you shoot Mexicans, as long as I get to shoot Californians. Fair is fair.

    barfo
     
  10. oldguy

    oldguy Well-Known Member

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    Here’s a link http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/04/10/rel5o.pdf to the CNN poll from earlier this year that I was referencing:

    The question asked was:
    66% answered ‘should not’.

    Here’s the Gallup question you reference:
    As you know, the results of any poll are influenced by the way the question is asked. Do you think it would influence the percentage approving if they also asked, "Would you support giving illegal aliens federal Pell grants to pay for their college?" Or, "Would you support giving illegal residents in-state tuition rates to help them gain legal status?" Or, if the poll explained that the law calls for them to attend college….it doesn’t say they have to complete a program or obtain a degree?

    The Gallup link you cite admits that it’s not clear how much the people know about the particulars of the bill, which would seem to reinforce my claim that it has not been widely reported.

    If they put this to a vote of the people, I would live with the results even if I didn’t like them. Passage of this kind of bill on my behalf, by a bunch of self-serving politicians, doesn’t work for me.

    Go Blazers
     
  11. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Seems to me the Gallup poll was a lot closer to describing the Dream Act than the CNN poll.

    No doubt, it would be better to force poll respondents to read and understand the entire bill (and have a full and complete understanding of related laws and social issues and costs) before accepting their answers.

    Since some huge percentage of Americans believe in UFOs and that Obama was born in Kenya and other such nonsense, you really have to question the usefulness of asking Americans anything at all. But you brought up polling, not me.

    For better or for worse, that's the American way. We have a representative system of government.

    barfo
     
  12. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    Nonsense.

    Make up some more lies about me.
     
  13. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    Unidentified Flying Objects exist. It's an obvious fact.

    I would suggest anyone who claims that all flying objects have always been identified is arguing an unsupportable point just to be argumentative.

    Kind of like what you're doing on the illegal immigration issue.
     
  14. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Right, you just believe in shooting them.

    barfo
     
  15. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Clever, but of course I was using "UFO" not in the absolutely literal sense, but in the 'aliens from outer space' sense.

    barfo
     
  16. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    What unsupportable point do you think I'm arguing? I'm just pointing out the problems with your claims.

    barfo
     
  17. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    Again you lie about me. I never said anything that could be mistaken for that.

    You are deliberately substituting Mexicans for illegal aliens, because you have no arguement. You are simply here to bait and act the class clown.
     
  18. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    Either way, your attempt at mocking Americansfor believing "things which most likely exist" exist, is disingenuous.

    You would be hard-pressed to find a credible authority that thinks there is no life in the universe other than here on Earth.
     
  19. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    You said this about Mexicans:

    No mention of illegal immigrants. You said a large minority of the Mexican population is murderous and the rest are mostly cowards. I helpfully bolded the parts that made it clear that you were speaking about the entire Mexican population, not the ones that illegally cross the border.

    It's not barfo that's the racist here. It's time you looked at the man in the mirror and asked him to make a change, as Michael Jackson would have advised when he was still a much-loved pop star.
     
  20. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    Fail.

    2 different arguements about 2 completely different things.

    I said I support shooting anyone who attempts to illegally cross our borders. Swedes, Swahilis or Siamese makes no difference to me. Barfo is the one who keeps inserting race into it.

    As for "MOST OF THE REST OF THEM" (not the same as all, refers to a large majority of a small majority since a large minority are criminals, so about 50%) being cowards, I think that's plain to see. A country cannot fall into such massive and devastating decay, both structurally and morally, unless it's people are total cowards or incredibly lazy. Since we've all heard the legendary tales of illegal alien Super menial-task-workers and their superhuman displays of manual labor superiority, one can only come to the conclusion they are cowards.
     

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