Neither is Wes Matthews or Nic Batum on their own. Almost no player is good enough to drive playoff success individually, so I think that's a bad standard for whether a player is worth keeping around. Brandon Roy before his injuries might have led us to playoff success. A fully healthy and developed Oden might have. Players like James, Wade and Paul can. That doesn't mean lesser but still very good players are worthless.
Neither is LaMarcus Aldridge - by himself. Should we waive him, too? This thread, and the Miller hate in general is just fucking ridiculous. He's our second best player. If Oden and Roy were healthy, he'd be our 4th best - and a 4th option with a 19+ PER is pretty fucking good. Good enough to lead the team to playoff success when options 1 and 1a are missing? No. But good enough to lead us to the playoffs. Can Patty Mills do that? No fucking way. Is Devin Harris leading the Nest to the playoffs (in the WEAK ASS Eastern Conference)? No. So, how about fans of the Portland Trail Blazers stop hating on one of the best players we currently have on the team. Why not spend your energy rooting for him, rather than against him? - Not you specifically tlongII, I'm referring to the Miller haters who post negative shit about him here on a daily basis. I've never seen a player with a 19+ PER get so much shit from his own fan base. Fuck, ZBo got more respect that Andre Miller. At least people here acknowledged Zach's strengths along with pointing out his weaknesses. As far as some posters here, Andre Miller cannot do anything right. Don't believe me? Just go back and read the first post in this thread. BNM
I've never understood the hate for Miller either. I've seen him be the only one hitting shots and people call him a ball hog. Makes no sense.
I propose we ban B-N-M from these forum immediately and forever. He makes way too much fucking sense and is a general disruption to the bitching and moaning that we all love on these forums - and we simply can't allow that. Plus, I can't rep him anymore. Ban him.
Funny thing is, Miller isn't even my favorite Blazer. He's, at best, my 4th or 5th favorite. But, he gets so much disrespect from the haters in this forum, I feel the need to defend him. He's currently 11th in the league in AST/G. The haters insist he's a ball hog. The stats say otherwise. Of the 25 players averaging => 5.0 AST/G, Miller ranks 18th in FGA/G. The haters insist he can't shoot. The stats say otherwise. Of the 25 players averaging => 5.0 AST/G, Miller ranks 9th in FG% at 0.462. That ties him with Deron Williams (0.462) and puts him ahead of Derrick Rose (0.454), Raymond Felton (0.434), Russell Westbrook (0.432), Devin Harris (0.431), Chauncey Billups (0.410), John Wall (0.395), Mo Williams (0.387), Gilbert Arenas (0.384) and Jason Kidd (0.343). The haters like to say his defense sucks. The stats say otherwise. Of the 25 players averaging => 5.0 AST, Miller ranks 12th in DRtg. His DRtg of 108 ranks right behind Russell Westbrook, at 107, who is supposedly a great defender. He's ranked ahead of Devin Harris (110), who posters here claim is a better defender. He's also ranked ahead of John Wall (110), Raymond Felton (110), Deron Williams (111), Chauncey Billups (111) and, of course, Steve Nash (an atrocious 116). In terms of advanced stats, Miller is clearly, and solidly, the 2nd best player in this team, after LaMarcus Aldridge. He consistently out produces his opponent ( 19.9 - 14.9 = +5.0 Net production, trailing only LaMarcus Aldridge at 20.8 - 15.6 = +5.2 Net). He's also second on the team, by a wide margin, in on court/off court differential at +10.1 and Simple Rating (+6.7), again trailing only Aldridge in both categories. Yet, he gets constantly bashed and disrespected by the haters in this forum. The one legitimate criticism of Miller is that he's a horrible 3-point shooter. Yes, it's true, but he is smart enough to realize this and only attempts about 1 3-pointer every other game. If you look at the list of players averaging => 5.0 you will see very few perfect players. Most of the players on that list have at least one glaring weakness in their games. Either they play even worse defense than Miller, shoot the ball at a lower percentage, or turn the ball over considerably more. The fact is, the list of NBA PGs that are better, in all ways, than Andre Miller is a very short list. Of the players averaging => 5/0 AST/G, Andre Miller ranks 10th in PER, and two of those aren't even PGs (LeBron James is a SF and Monta Ellis is a SG). That leaves 7 NBA PGs with a higher PER than Andre Miller. Those 7 are: Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Deron Wiliams, Derrick Rose, Tony Parker and Rajon Rondo. Would I take any of those 7 over Andre Miller? You bet I would. Are any of those 7 available (doubtful), and if so, at what price (high)? So haters, face the facts. Andre Miller doesn't suck. He's infinitely better than any other PG we have on our current roster and better than anyone we're likely to get in a trade. Stop the hate and start supporting the second best player on your team. BNM
I doubt he would even with a healthy Greg and Brandon. And you're right...we'll never know. I believe you must have solid outside shooting from the point although Boston might be an exception.
Are you talking championship, or just making it to the second round? I think if Oden and Roy had both been healthy this season, this team would EASILY make the second round. With a starting five of Healthy Oden, Aldridge, Batum, Healthy Roy and Miller, that would move Camby and Matthews to the bench. That would make our first, and second, units so much better. Right now, our second unit flat out sucks. Adding Camby and Matthews would improves the second unit's defense, both perimeter and interior, tremendously, and would also provide a legitimate scoring option on the second unit. So, if Oden and Roy had both been healthy, I could see this team securing HCA and easily advancing to the second round. In fact, prior to the season, I predicted they would make the WCF and have a legitimate shot at upsetting the Lakers. Without Oden, that dream was shattered (just not enough size to match the Lakers). Without Oden and Roy, no chance to even make the second round. BNM
Your defense of Andre's shooting is laughable. He's shooting 8.3% on 3 pointers this season. Do you realize how AWFUL that is? Hell, even Rondo makes threes at a 30% clip. You simply must be able to stretch the defense from the point guard position if you want to have an elite team in my opinion.
I'm sorry my post is a little strong. I didn't read all of your post and missed where you stated that criticism of Miller's 3 point shooting is valid.
Yeah, it sucks. However, I disagree with your premise you MUST be able to stretch the defense from the PG position. As long as you have one, or better, two legitimate 3-point threats from your guards and small forward position, it will open up the middle for your bigs. The Celtics have Ray Allen (0.473 3 FG%) and Paul Pierce (0.412 3 FG%). So, they don't NEED a PG who can shoot the three. Rondo may shoot a better (but still not good) 3FG%, but he's actually attempted one fewer 3-point shot than Andre Miller this season. So, he's not stretching anyone's defense with his outside shooting ability, Allen and Pierce do that. Ditto for the Spurs. Tony Parker has only attempted 28 3-pointers all season with a 3FG% of 0.286. But, the Spurs have a shit load of other 3-point threats (Matt Bonner, 0.504 3FG% on 119 attempts, Richard Jefferson, 0.422 3FG% on 166 attempts, Gary Neal, 0.390 3FG% on 159 attempts and Manu Ginobili, 0.372 3FG% on 253 attempts). We don't. Our best 3-point shooter would be San Antonio's 4th best (barely). We've got Wes Matthews, 0.374 3FG% on 198 attempts, Rudy Fernandez, 0.329 3FG% on 173 attempts, Nicolas Batum, 0.313 3FG% on 163 attempts, and now Patty Mills, 0.323 3FG% on 65 attempts. If one, or two, of these guys could step up and consistently knock down an open 3-pointer, we wouldn't NEED our PG to stretch the defense. But, they can't. So, Miller, in spite of all the other things he does well, is the scape goat. BNM
Parker and Rondo are very different than Miller. They are much quicker and much younger. Miller can't shoot the three and he can't break down opponents off the dribble either. About all he can do is post up and pass. I think we need more from the position.
I think it's funny how people think you have to shoot a 3 to open stuff up. A good mid range jumper can do the same job. The art of a mid range jumper has been loss since the league started the 3 point line.
Honestly, I think it's laughable how some of the fans treat Miller on this board. When he scores, he shoots too much. When he drops 10 dimes in a game, he is a bad shooter. The guy can't win.
What's even funnier is you still haven't learned to read. I did not compare Andre Miller to Tony Parker or Rajon Rondo. I cited the Celtics and Spurs as examples of two teams that don't rely on their PG shooting 3-pointers to open up the offense, as both teams have other excellent 3-point shooters. Of the 24 players averaging more than more than 5.0 APG, Parker, Miller and Rondo rank 22, 23 and 24 in 3FGA at 28, 24 and 23. That's a fact. Look it up. Shouldn't be too hard. I even provided the link. If you COULD read, you would have also noticed that Parker and Miller were two of the PGs that I said I'd definitely take over Andre Miller - IF THEY WERE AVAILABLE. *Deleted* BNM
The problem is they aren't "fans". They are assholes that cheer against one of their own players in a desperate attempt to to be "right" in an internet discussion group. They'd rather see Miller fail than admit they might have been wrong about the guy. BNM
I think some posters created a false Roy vs. Miller dichotomy, that to be a "Roy loyalist" meant criticizing Miller at every turn.
Well, I'm sure some of it has to do with Roy not accepting Miller, and complaining about how their styles clash. There's two sides to the argument, and while some people fault Miller for the lack of chemistry and cohesion with Roy, I personally fault Brandon. This is Roy's team, he's the leader, and it's his job to rectify that kind of thing.
