I'm just curious what you guys think about Mills and Johnson. Mills has kept Johnson on the bench for a while now. I haven't been able to watch as many games as I'd like, so I'm curious what you guys think of it. I know it's not necessarily the most important discussion ever, but Johnson seemed to do well earlier in the year.
Patty works great with the second unit because of how quick we try and play. He can shoot and has the ability to penetrate and kick out, although he is usually looking to the score when he penetrates. His defense is god awful but he can get some nice steals and is one of the fastest players i'v seen on the court. Not much has come of Armon since the first part of the season. His inability to shoot and some boneheaded turnovers have kept him on the bench. Defense wise the guy is built like a tank and has nice length and quickness. With our second unit looking dry from the field constantly don't expect Armon to get any minutes.
Andre did have a nice game from what I've seen in the box-score and highlights but it is my opinion that a) Andre NEVER gets hurt and b) we won the game he sat out because of suspension easily. I can tell you 2 opposite things that are both true in my opinion: Andre is a very good player and point-guard. We are a better team without him. I can see us keeping him for the rest of the season. I think then we should let him sign elsewhere. Unless of course he proves all the doubters wrong and gives us an amazing 2nd half of the season and playoffs. It Can happen, I'm just not sure it will. Either way, Armon could benefit from Andre tutoring him for at least the rest of the year.
Also, I don't advocate any trades right now. I think our team is set for making it to at least the first round of the playoffs this year and will only get better. There's not one rotation player other than maybe Andre that I see as being expandable at the moment. Other than Miller there's Patty, Armon, Wes, Rudy, Batum, LA, Dante, Joel and Camby. That's 10 players if you count both Miller and Armon which gives us a solid 9 player rotation for now and the future. In the draft I would like to see us take Festus Ezeli whom I think is a very good prospect at Center to eventualy take over for Camby when he retires. Joel is obviously a keeper and so are the rest of the players listed. These are all good players, most of them young or even very young. The older players we should start thinking ahead for replacements for them but I also think Marcus could play for at least 2-3 more solid years.
I don't think either of those guys has much of a future with this team. I like Patty because I think this team sorely needs someone with his sense of humor to keep things light. With Outlaw and Webster gone, he's the kind of guy who keeps the locker room light. That's important, but he's not someone that is going to help us a ton on the basketball court. We desperately need a decent backup point guard.
It's hard to say with their overall limited playing time. PG's develop over time. That said, in response to the thread author, here's my general opinion: Mills- Very quick, able to hit the open shot, keep the ball moving, drive to the basket and hit the open player. His defense is more of a pesky type and not a 'strength' type defender. I don't see him as a starter in the league, per se, but as a good #2 PG over time. He's smart and aussie tough. Johnson- Not as quick as Mills, but quick enough. Not a shooter and can't finish as well as Mills. However, although he resides in Nate's "Too Many Turnover Dog House" right now, I think he can be a fair assist player. Once he settles down he'll be a more calm PG, ala Miller and not jitter buggy like Mills. He can be a top tier PG defender. He's tough and strong. Although I don't see him as an NBA starter, I see him with a better chance as one over Mills over time.
Don't apologize for your thread, LameR. It's a good thread. I'm a huge Mills fan. As NateBishop said, he has been great for morale but he's also been quite good on the court. He's been a nice burst of scoring off the bench which we were sorely missing when Rudy was slumping. He's won games for us. Off hand, I think of the game in which we were down by 13 in the fourth quarter in Houston. Patty came in, made some huge shots, and completely turned the game in our favor. I disagree that he does not have a future with our team. He's young and very effective. On that note, who do you Mills haters consider to be the best backup PGs in this league? Honestly, two of the best were run out of Portland- Jarrett Jack and Steve Blake. How many can you name who are better?
I like both those guys, but they're not very good. Probably good enough to stick with a team as a 3rd string PG or have successful Euroleague careers.
I see them as 2 guards who if you put both of their strengths together, you would have one pretty decent guard. But individually I see holes in each of their games, and hope for improvement. Patty Mills is only effective IMO if scoring, and with that scoring, comes spacing the floor for Aldridge. He also brings a ton of speed which you can't teach. Armon Johnson was better defensively, but lacks the offensive game. He forces shots in traffic (typical young player error) and often when the game went into half court, seemed lost. In the open court game, he seemed more comfortable. Considering now it has been months since we have really seen him play, I consider my knowledge of any skill progression minimal.
Unfortunately, Patty is what we though he was - a subminiature SG who only looks for his own shot, shoots a very low percentage and can't guard a chair. That's exactly what he was in college and that's exactly what he will always be. Sure he had a couple good games, but in the six games since the Houston game, he has a total of 6 assists and is 3/17 (0.176) from 3-point range. In those six games, he's attempted 46 FG and only dished 6 AST. That's serious ballhog territory - for a SG. I actually like the guy and enjoy watching him play. He's exciting to watch and brings a lot of energy, but in the end, he's just not that good. He runs around a lot, but very little good comes of it. He's a streaky shooter that will occasionally have a very good game, but then he'll follow that up with 4 or 5 awful ones. You never know what you're going to get. Well, you know he's going to shoot a lot, you just never know how many are actually going to go in. I haven't seen enough of Armon Johnson to have a solid opinion on his present, or future, value to this team. He seems like a good defender, but I wonder about his shooting and ability to run a team. Too early to tell, but the odds aren't in his favor. How many starting PGs are there in the NBA that were second round draft picks? The only one I can think of is Mo Williams. Most starting PGs were lottery picks, or at least 1st rounders. Will Johnson be the rare exception? Who knows. I haven't seen enough to say one way or the other. In short, from what I've seen so far, I wouldn't want to depend on either to be my starting PG. BNM
Patty is a 6' tall shooting guard with an iffy handle, iffy court vision, less than iffy defense and an OK shot. Armon is MIA, god knows where he is or isn't in terms of development.
What I like about Patty is that he lets the game come to him and doesn't try to force his decision-making and distrupt the flow. He'll shoot when open and pass when he isn't but he wouldn't try running the offense like an Andre Miller who gets more assists but also costs us too many empty possesions when he doesn't "decide" what to do until late in the shot clock and long after everyone else stopped moving (when you run and run and don't get the ball you usualy stop running...) It doesn't count as a turnover but it is a turnover in my book. Armon is still very raw but I see almost unlimited potential for him. He's a natural leader, a great defender and while he often controlls the ball too much he at least dribbles all over the place and creates havoc. If he could develop Miller's passing ability with his ability to create havoc and assuming he'll cut down on the turnovers when he gets more than 2 MPG, the sky's the limit for this guy. I see them both as a brignt-enough future for our PG position. I'm willing to accept Miller staying till his contract is up but I think we're already set for the Post-Miller era.
Problem solved! Armon can be our starting center now! He would immediately be the fastest best ball handling center in the NBA!
I don't know what is the timetable for Camby. We managed without Joel for most of the year so we can manage without Camby for a month. If it's much more than one month we should consider bringing someone to get some minutes. Other than Sean Marks, our only remaining inside players are Joel and LMA, with Dante and perhaps Batum able to play as the 2nd biggest player in a small lineup. The small lineup worked for us at times this season and I'm guessing for half a game we could use the traditional Joel and LMA, two big-men lineup. For the other 20 something minutes we should try to keep one of them in and play small ball. If for some reason both are out - foul trouble or god forbid an injury to one of them - we would be relegated to Sean Marks or extremely-small ball with Batum and Dante as big men.
I know you're not used to such things because you have been hanging around Nate too long, but other coaches would probably exploit Johnson on the defensive end
That's nice. Do you really think Armon Johnson is a Tony Parker, or are you just trying to make people have a feel good moment? The success rate of 2nd round guards is probably lower than 1 in 60 picked. Do you normally go into a season and think "Hey I sure am depending on that 2nd round draft pick to turn things around for us."
If you include last night's game, we're 2-0 without Miller. I also believe we are now 5-0 without Camby? Too lazy to look it up.
