Charles Barkley: D.Rose is the best point guard in the nba

Thrilla: I really hate this argument because well Rondo is a fucking genius. But I really keep going back to the fact that I think that Rose is more conducive to winning on most nights in most situations. Rose shot egregiously last night, but the Bulls won. When the team is shooting well he racks up assists, when the team is shooting poorly he shoots them into the game on pure force of will, regardless of how poorly the team is playing. Last night was ugly, ugly, ugly. But if Rondo was our point guard, we would have lost.

 

I have no problem with what Barkley said. As this thread proves, it's arguable.

I've never understood all the "pure point guard" stuff. Different teams need different things from the guy who plays the point position. For what this Bulls team needs from their PG, Rose is damn close to ideal.

Rose is their leading scorer...because he has to be...and he's very good at it.

Rose is their go-to guy late in games...because he has to be...and he's very good at it.

Given that his team needs him to score more than other teams need their PGs to score, his 8 assists/game is pretty damned impressive to me. He's also become an excellent rebounder for a point.

I think Nash, Paul, Williams and Rondo are terrific basketball players, but I wouldn't trade Rose straight up for any of them.

 

He's an excellent rebounder . . . when Noah and Boozer are out. And I guess that's the point isn't it? My earlier argument that the Cs would be better with Rose is questionable; I accept that people smarter than me can disagree about that. But when your team needs clutch scoring, or rebounding, or a distributor, or late game block, or whatever, Rose seems to step up and provide that. Rose's contributions are always situational and that isn't captured in his stats. He doesn't provide assists when the team needs scoring, or scoring when the team needs assists. He will shoot and shoot and shoot no matter how bad a game he is having if he is the best option on the court. Rose does what it takes to win.

 

And since this thread has centered around new statistical measures, find me a stat that describes force of will -- the drive on a cold January night to demand that your team wins. Kobe has it and that's why he has five rings. Wade and Lebron too, and that's why ESPN rightly talks up the Heat's chances every night. Rose is in the mix with those three players. Indeed, I think he's arguably demands more than both Wade and Lebron.

There was a great conversation on ESPN's 1/19 NBA podcast where Ryen Russillo, who sees limitations in basketball nuovo-statics, and Henry Abbott talk about late game production. Russillo basically forced Abbott to admit that he would rather have Kevin Martin in a late game situation than Kobe Bryant. Abbott is a Hollinger disciple, and under Hollinger's stats, Martin is the most efficient guard in the league. I think that's fucking crazy talk. I love using empirical measures to find where our impressions are biased. Nate Silver is a must read for both elections and baseball. I just think Hollinger somehow became accepted as the NBA statics guru and his measures are severely flawed.

 

I think they looked at late game TSS or some other statistical measure and Matin's was much better than Kobe.

 

Efficiency is nice.

According to 82games.com, during "Clutch Time" (4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points), Kurt Thomas is the absolute model of efficiency...he hasn't missed a shot and averages 21.3 points per 48 mins.

Makes Kevin Martin look like a chucker.

 

Sorry if this has already been posted but Chuck once again addressed during the pregame why he thinks Rose is the best point guard. He said two reasons.

1. Leadership. Said Bulls are still winning despite the fact we are missing Noah and Boozer.

2. The kid has worked on his game in the off season. He said he has already made more threes so far than he did in his NBA career before the season started.

 

Poor silly Charles.

1. Leadership can't be statistically verified, therefore it doesn't exist.

2. Rose eclipsed his career total for made 3s early in his 21st game this season. To be fair, he's made more than twice as many 3s so far this season than he did in his first 2 seasons.

 

You've got that right.

Rondo's a SOB, but if he was my SOB, I'd absolutely love him. He's a gamer.

Honestly, I think both players ended up on the right teams to suit their talents.