<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>These views were exported to the United States. John Jay in 1788 promoted the New York legislature to require officeholders to renounce foreign authorities "in all matters ecclesiastical as well as civil."[1]. More significant anti-Catholicism has historically been conspicuous among the beliefs of various nativist organisations from the Know-Nothing Party in the 1850s to the Ku Klux Klan in the 1920s.</div> The KKK and those morons from that website are just racists that think they are better than non-whites, they can't quote anything saying 'whites are better' from the bible or that white people are 'superior'...Not to mention the KKK in the last 40 years has been vertually non-existant and when it was at it's peak (15% of the American population) they were killing people but hardly as many as people think. Again, show me in the bible where it promotes the death of non-believers...etc...Racists are just idiots that have no bible backing. Show me something that supports the KKK's views in the bible.
lol not to get of subject or anything; this is a great debate, but its 1:40 am and im goin to sleep - i'll get back to you though asap...lol
I hope your mom gives you extra cookies so you feel better....because I took you out behind the woodshed tonight.
hey i feel fine man, I feel if someone reads this thread than they'll get somethign new out of it -thats what matters. No one really had an advantage this whole thread, we came back punch for punch. I admit, I was a little weak on my facts because I didn't back it up, but it's not like you "took me behind the woodshed" lol. I call this debate pretty even so far; maybe giving u a slight edge. Show some class man.
lol theres a difference between arguing and debating lolAllah wants you to get a good nights sleep too BCB.
This entire Christian/Islam debate is pointless, because nobody's views are going to change, so why not just drop it? I mean, alright, you are anti-Islam, good for you! If that helps you sleep better at night or feel better about yourself then go for it.It's funny though when people quote stuff out of the Quran and post it out of context, yet don't take the time to actually read the entire "chapter" and put the quotes in context. If somebody read the entire "chapter" they would be able to comprehend what those quotes are actually saying, unless of course they have the comprehension skills of a 4th grader.Also, all this "Christians don't commit terrorist actions" thing is bullsh**. Obviously there is media bias everywhere in the world, and the media cannot report everything that goes on in the world, but just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it's going on, now does it? That's common sense. In that other thread I pointed out a few examples of "Christian terrorism" (ironically in response to Yuzo), and after that nobody posted anything. So, if you guys are going to keep proclaiming that Islam is evil and stuff like that, and ask me to provide you with examples of terrorist actions committed by Christians, then don't run away and stop posting when I present the response. If you're just going to not post a response, and then wait a few weeks before starting another thread on pretty much the same issue, what is that saying Yuzo?Just F*ck the whole issue... nobody's views are going to change. There are rational people out there that understand that Islam is not evil, and that those idiotic terrorists are twisting the words of the Quran to justify their own intentions... but then there will always be those ignorant people who believe that every Muslim (or the majority of Muslims) are evil strictly because of 9/11 and the media's coverage of terrorist actions in the Middle East.Rok is right, let's just drop it, because this can go on and on and on, and eventually it will just turn into a flame war... just stick to your beliefes. If you want to continue to hold true to your ignorant beliefs about how Islam and Muslims are evil, then go right ahead. That's your choice and your opinion, and you have a right to it... even if you arrived at it despite being poorly-informed, in my opinion.I'm done with this thread and this issue, because no matter what we say you will continue to stick to your anti-Islam beliefs. Hell, I made two f*cking huge posts in the Islam is Evil thread responding to that idiotic article that JustBlaze posted, but the people that "supported" and "agreed" with the article just ignored it (probably because they didn't want to take the time to read it) and continued to promote the ideas from the article... despite the fact that I clearly refuted pretty much 90-95% of the article using facts and stats, not made up sh*t that the writer claimed to be facts.Damn, this rant was much longer than it was supposed to be... but yeah, I'm done with this issue, because nobody's views are going to change, and it will pretty much end up in a flame war, and anti-Islam people are just going to continue posting this sh*t regardless... The whole issue can go on forever, and it probably will.If you think Christianity is better, good for you. If you think Islam is better, good for you. If you think "insert religion here" is better than "insert religion here," then good for you! It isn't a damn competition...End of rant.
Why do you keep talking about how those quotes from the Quran are taken out of context? When it says to destroy non-believers because their is only one religion and that is islam, what else is there to say? "Non-Belivers should be terminated because there is only one religion and it is Islam, but on second thought you probably shouldn't kill nonbelieveers because it isn't nice." It's ridiculous. What is being taken out on context?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The punishment of those who pit themselves against Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement, except those who repent before you have them in your power (5:33-34)</div><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>What is the matter with you, then, that you have become two parties about the hypocrites, while Allah has made them return (to unbelief) for what they have earned? Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to err? And whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall by no means find a way for him. THEY DESIRE THAT YOU SHOULD DISBELIEVE AS THEY HAVE DISBELIEVED, SO THAT YOU MIGHT BE ALL ALIKE; THEREFORE TAKE NOT FROM AMONG THEM FRIENDS UNTIL THEY FLY THEIR HOMES IN ALLAH'S WAY; BUT IF THEY TURN BACK, THEN SEIZE THEM AND KILL THEM WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, AND TAKE NOT FROM AMONG THEM A FRIEND OR A HELPER. (4:89)</div><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>As for those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the punishment (4:56)</div> Yeah, what a peacefull and welcoming religion...but i'm sure these are all 'taken out of context' as well. Look guys, i'm atheist but to say Islam is a peacefull religion, well it's ridiculous.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The punishment of those who pit themselves against Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement, except those who repent before you have them in your power (5:33-34)</div>This is the only one that gives enough background to justify anything, you need way more than little paragraphs to know anything for sure.It clearly says before that: "The punishment of those who pit themselves against Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the land"It's not like the Qur'an randomly tells you to go kill people for the sake of Islam - it says he that the punishment of those who always make mischief among the people in their own land - as in a fight, a war, etc than they should be punished. Nothing is wrong with that, if someone kills your family, blows up your house, and destroys your farm that is your only source for food and money than those people have every right to retaliate. (btw: the reference I was trying to make was to the Israeli army - they do all those things)To tell you the truth, no one is really qualified her to explain and decifer the Qur'an because we aren't scholars or anything - if you really want to get a good feel for Islam you gotta get it from either the Qur'an itself by reading not segments of it, but actual chapters. You can get it from Muslim Shiek (priest), although it's probably hard for you to do that; or you can visit this website (www.sultan.org), it has everything you would ever need to know. If I get anything from this thread, is that I hope that someone would go to this site and actually read it without being lazy, and understand the truth. a Big thing that you shouldnt do when trying to learn about relgion is learn it from the media - thats what people tend to do over here in the US.
Yeah...okay...it doesn't take a scholar to understand that the Quran has some problems with non-believers...give me a break. "Islam is good! Your misinterpreting the Quran! Oh wait, we aren't qualified to really judge what's been quoted so let's drop it.' Pathetic.
We know its good because we've been taught it, and we haven't been taught anything that promotes evil. The reason I say that we aren't qualified to really interpret the Qur'an is because I can't read arabic, and english translations are a little shaky with how they translate things. and I didn't say lets drop it, this is a good debate - BigMo was saying that no one will really change anyone's mind on a messageboard, so he's saying it's worthless to just keep doing this because there is no solution to any of it.I know this for a fact, the Quran does NOT have problems with disbelievers unless they threaten or harm anyone who is a believer. The Quran also does not preach hate or voilence out of randomness: for example it doesnt say "HATE AMERICANS" - the reason for that is most mid eastern countries feel that Americans are harming them and so they don't like the US - the hate for the US is what fuels the terrorists, not Islam. Islam is just their way of justifying thier crimes.
Yes, the Quran does not take kindly to "disbelievers," but what you are failing to see is that the Quran teaches us not to go around killing people UNLESS our religion is being oppressed and persecuted, and we are only allowed to use violence IF EVERY PEACEFUL ATTEMPT has failed, and there is ABSOLUTELY no other choice.I also don't see anybody pointing out the fact that numerous, numerous times it says that although people disbelieve, Allah gives them many, many chances to repent and believe in him. All they have to do is sincerely feel that they disbelieved, and start following Islam. Hell, they are even given a chance AFTER they die... If we were really taught to kill off all disbelievers, wouldn't you be dead already? You're a disbeliever, but you don't see me booking the next flight to Wisconsin, finding your house, and killing you.Islam is a peaceful religion... and if you anybody doesn't think Islam is a peaceful religion, then you're saying Christianity isn't peaceful either, and neither is Judaism. Why? Because Islam was sent down by Allah because Christianity and the words of the Bible became corrupt. Islam is extremely similar to the Bible... so, if Christians are going to say Islam is evil, then they are acknowledging that Christianity is evil as well.And I'm not saying let's drop the issue because we aren't "qualified" to judge it or talk about it, rather this debate is going to go on forever, and nobody's views/opinions are going to change. You think Islam isn't peaceful... that's good for you, and that's your opinion. But if Islam really is an evil religion, then why aren't ALL Muslims committing violent and terroristic actions? I mean, if Islam REALLY is evil... then shouldn't all us Muslims be out there bombing and killing all non-Muslims? But WE AREN'T DOING THAT. Is Hakeem Olajuwan evil because he is Muslim? Is Muhammad Ali evil? Was Malcolm X evil? If Islam truly is evil in itself, then the majority of it's followers would be out killing people and committing terrorist actions... but they aren't! WHY?! If Islam truly isn't a peaceful religion, then WHY ARE THE MAJORITY OF IT'S FOLLOWERS PEACEFUL? I really want to know the answers to those questions...People are claiming Islam is evil because of the actions of the terrorists, and I honestly think that is extremely ignorant. So is it alright for me to think that Christianity is evil simply because the majority of crimes in this country are committed by Christians? No... you can't judge an entire group based on the actions of a few of them (relative to the total size of the population). I mean, people don't come to BBW and say "they are all spammers" just because we have two or three spammers here, now do they? People don't consider Germans to be evil, despite the fact that they were responsible for the Holocaust, do they? I'm not even talking about religion... I'm talking about whether it is right to judge an entire group based on the actions of a relatively small portion of the group members.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigMo763 @ Jun 17 2006, 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If we were really taught to kill off all disbelievers, wouldn't you be dead already? You're a disbeliever, but you don't see me booking the next flight to Wisconsin, finding your house, and killing you.</div> :ranting: Why are you telling him our plan you dumbass? :HAHAHA:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ArizonaFan @ Jun 17 2006, 07:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>:ranting: Why are you telling him our plan you dumbass? :HAHAHA:</div>He didn't know it was our plan until you said it was... :closedeyes: :HAHAHA:
awaiting BBW's answer...lol BigMo = MVP Poster We should make a new topic for those awards under most valuable poster in off topic section. BigMo wins it everytime.
This will be the first time I vote for the awards and BigMo will be my vote for MVP poster, every month.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Waqas @ Jun 17 2006, 12:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%">Fighting in Islam...</span>2.190. Fight against those who fight against you in the way of Allah, but do not transgress, for Allah does not love transgressors.2.191. Kill them whenever you confront them and drive them out from where they drove you out. (For though killing is sinful) wrongful persecution is even worse than killing. Do not fight against them near the Holy Mosque unless they fight against you; but if they fight against you kill them, for that is the reward of such unbelievers.2.192. Then if they desist, know well that Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Compassionate.2.193. Keep on fighting against them until mischief ends and the way prescribed by Allah prevails. But if they desist, then know that hostility is only against the wrong-doers.2.194. The sacred month for the sacred month; sanctities should be respected alike ( by all concerned). Thus, if someone has attacked you, attack him just as he attacked you, and fear Allah and remain conscious that Allah is with those who guard against violating the bounds set by Him.<span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%">To the Haters of the Quran</span> Even if a Quran caused mountains to move, the earth to tear asunder or the dead to speak, the disbelievers would not believe. The believers would better give up and realize that if God willed, He could have guided all mankind. (13:31)When God substitutes one revelation in place of another, the disbelievers conclude without knowing that the Quran is a human's work. But whether they believe it or not, it is the Holy Spirit who has brought it down from the almighty, truthfully, to provide good news for the submitters. (16:101-102)If it's a human fabrication. Then why do they not produce ten chapters fabricated and call on everyone they can beside God, if they tell the truth. (11:13)Even when the disbelievers accept to follow the Quran, they accept it only partially. Surly God will question them about what they have been doing. (15:91)They ask, " Why has not the Quran been revealed to the prophet all at once?" But the Most wise wanted to release it to his prophet gradually, in order to fix it in his memory and to strengthen his heart with it. (25:32)Some disbelievers never listen to the Quran and try to distort it, that they may win. God will certainly afflict them with a severe retribution for their evil works. (41:26-27)Some people were wondering why it was not sent down through another man who was prominent. In fact God knows where to assign his mercy better than them. (43:31-32)The Quran is a decisive statement. It is no Joke. It shouldn't be taken lightly. The disbelievers plot and scheme, and so does God. He just puts up with them for a short respite. (86:13-17)The only religion approved by God is "Submission." Ironically, those who have received the scripture are the ones who dispute this fact, despite the knowledge they have received, due to jealousy. For such rejectors of God's revelations, God is most strict in reckoning. (3:19)</div>I'd like to openly state to everyone that <span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%">Waqas is an idiot, he does nothing to help Islam's cause, and he is senile and stupid.</span>
I don't know what BCB was claiming. I never said that Islam was evil or even implied it, but I have a really, really hard time believing that # of Muslim terrorists = # of Christian terrorists. To me, that's just silly. Not only that, but I believe the Muslim supporters of terrorism are high in number as well. You can't even measure that, but whatever.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Jun 17 2006, 11:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't know what BCB was claiming. I never said that Islam was evil or even implied it, but I have a really, really hard time believing that # of Muslim terrorists = # of Christian terrorists. To me, that's just silly. Not only that, but I believe the Muslim supporters of terrorism are high in number as well. You can't even measure that, but whatever.</div>Yes, I know you didn't imply that, but there have been numerous people on this board, and some of them have posted in this topic, that have previously made clear their belief that Islam is evil, and those were the people whose my post was directed towards.Obviously the number of Islamic extremists doesn't equal the number of Christian extremists, but the fact of the matter remains that there ARE Christian terrorist attacks that have taken place throughout history, and that still take place today, yet they aren't given the same media coverage that the Muslim terrorists are given because of the fact that we are currently at War with the Islamic terrorists. To deny that Christians have never committed terrorist actions, or that they still don't, is just plain ignorant. Every religion has shed blood, and every religion has blood on their hands.The Muslim supporters may be higher in number, but that doesn't mean that Islam is an evil religion by sheer nature. I also don't think it is fair to say that Islam is evil simply because a small portion of the religion's followers commit terrorist actions... especially when the vast majority of the religion's followers are peaceful. If the roots of Islam, and the religion in general, was/is indeed evil, then wouldn't the vast majority of Muslims be out killing and committing terrorist acts? If Islam is truly evil, then why is it that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful? Those are two questions that I would really like BCB to answer...
