It's something I've been thinking about a the past few weeks. The thread title is mostly to create discussion, because it's hard to definitively say he'd be an improvement since we've seen him in such limited minutes. However, I think I would let Udoh start a few games and play significant minutes. If it doesn't work, then at least we tried. Defense seems to be our biggest weakness at the moment, and I think that Udoh is a definite defensive upgrade over Biedrins. He is a much better shotblocker, and he is also much better at "changing" a shot without fouling. He is also a better shooter than Biedrins. His shooting touch is already better than Biedrins' will ever be. He shoots 72% from the line, compared to Biedrins 33%, and wouldn't be such a liability in crunch time. The obvious drop-off would be rebounding, and I want to be sure not to undervalue Biedrins' contributions in that area. However, I think that's really the only facet of Andris' game that is vastly superior to Udoh's. Andris is only pulling 8rpg right now, in only 26mpg. The question is, if Udoh was getting more than 11mpg, how many boards would he pull? This is the question. Are Udoh's other skills worth the potential drop-off in rebounding? Personally, I think that Udoh could grab a decent amount of boards. http://www.82games.com/1011/1011GSW.HTM Take a look at some of the stats on 82games.com...for what it's worth, our top 5 players in Simple Rating are Curry, Ellis, D-Wright, Lee and Udoh. Our team has a better defensive AND offensive rating when Udoh is in compared to Biedrins. I wish Udoh got more run with the starters, because then we could compare the two a little better, since the players you share the court with are going to greatly influence your stats... When the "big 4" play with Biedrins they average 1.15 points per possession, and they allow 1.05 points per possession on defense. When the same 4 play with Udoh they average 1.17 points per possession, but they allow only 0.66 points per possession on defense. The only problem is that this squad has only played 7 minutes together, and I blame that mostly on Smart. Anyway, that makes these numbers pretty tentative, but still...food for thought. Anyway, to be honest, I could be convinced either way. I just don't see how we could possibly be THAT much worse with Udoh in there. So, if we could trade Biedrins for a solid bench player, I'd go for it. Bottom line, it's something I've been thinking about, I've had a few beers, and I just wanted to see what you guys thought. I respect all of your opinions, and I figured at least one of you would have something intelligent to offer hahah.
I agree with you, I think its worth trying and certainly now that we've demolished all hopes of making the playoffs. First he needs to get 15-25 mpg off the bench though. Can't go from less than 10 mpg to starting unless AB is injured. But you don't want to destroy AB's value either. I say start giving him more burn and maybe in the last month if Beans is still around you shut him down and let Ekpe start.
Yes, at this point, I consider GS to be in rebuilding mode. Do whatever you can to develop for the future. POs are fool's gold at this point. So, just like I felt about Anthony Randolph, Brandan Wright, and even Monta + Beans when they were rookies -- the sooner we can give them good run, the sooner we can find out what they have, evaluate, and develop for the future.
I would love to just see Udoh backup the 4 before Vlad does. That would be a lot of minutes to better judge Udoh. Tonight Udoh has had 9+ minutes in the first half. If we are to compare Udoh and Beans the Warriora are +8 with Udoh in and -5 with Biedrins. But I think both are playing well.
Yeah, you're right, they both had good games. I just love Udoh's energy and hustle. Between the late start to the season and the very limited minutes, the guy is still VERY raw...and I like what I'm seeing, all things considered. Funny thing is, I (and I assume most of you) had verrrrrry low expectations for Udoh. I don't know why, I just wasn't expecting him to contribute much this year. I never would have thought I'd be campaigning for him to take Biedrins' spot in January. Yeah, you can look at things like: we're in rebuilding mode, and we might as well give him some run...however, even if we were in the playoff hunt, I'd be saying the same thing. I really think there's a very good chance that we will be a better team with him taking the bulk of the minutes at the 5 right now...period.
Last night's game rotations were a little more encouraging. It helped we had the lead for most of the night but Smart didn't put in Vlad or Gadz. He used Lou and Udoh exclusively as backups to Lee and Beans (oh, and Beans had another encouraging performance...he shot 80% from the FT line in Jan...yeah, 4-5!). I would have liked to have seen BWright instead of Lou, but Lou had a good game so no complaints.
Much better rotations. Like I said in the first post, Udoh had only played 7 minutes with the other 4 starters all season. He must have played at least another 7 with them last night.
Didn't watch the game but yeah, both Udoh and Beans played well. We all know +/- is sketchy but it seems like Udoh routinely has the best or one of the top 2 or 3 every single game. Don't think its a coincidence. He makes an impact on defense. I was one of the few Warriors fans I know of at all who didn't mind the pick. Monroe is starting to play well now but I was pretty skeptical of him. I liked Paul George and Xavier Henry too. At that pick there was a lot of B class prospects and its kind of hard to differentiate them. To me I'd have wanted Riley to take BPA so if that means getting one of those perimiter guys then just do it but he did end up going with a big- Udoh. And Udoh looks like he can be a difference maker. To be honest I don't know if he'll ever really be a starter on a good team. I think he'd have to be a 4 if thats the case. As a 4 hes got good size and we already see that hes got more skill than he let on. Thats a major source of hope I think as far as his potential to ever start. Hes showing some scoring ability in the post, a jumpshot, decent passing, etc. that could really improve with a couple years of hard work and obviously hes got the defensive game to go with it right now. That said if his offense doesn't really improve to starting PF caliber then I think hes a career 3rd big man. Which isn't bad. That's a key part of a team. He can come in and change a ton of shots, hes not a zero on offense, he can play both PF and C, defensive rebounding is poor but could improve maybe (this was my main concern with him from what I saw at Baylor). For now though hes probably the heaviest guy on the team and Lee is planted at the 4 so hes got no choice. Can you imagine though if we somehow swap Beans for a Perkins, Nene, Chandler, etc. and then sub Udoh in for Lee? Udoh and one of those guys? The center in the middle clogging up the lane with Udoh flying all over the weak side altering shots. That's why I think Udoh is a 4. He can change shots from the 5 but hes not that space eating, shut-down-the-lane player. Most of the best teams have the big 5 and a 4 capable of playing C at times but when at the 4 with the C that frontline is hard to score on. Perk-KG, Bynum-Gasol, Nene-KMart, etc. I think if Udoh does improve that offense then he could really be something though- at the 4. Next to a space eating, rebounding 5. If that jumper becomes a money shot when open. If the baby hook becomes a weapon, if he hits that fadeaway J like last night with regularity. If he can be a 16 ppg type of guy, obviously not a dominant go-to scorer but more like how David West plays off of Paul offensively and you combine it with the defensive impact then that would really be something. Right now though I'll still expect him to be a career first big off the bench and a good one. Nothing wrong with that to me. Hes got a difference-making skill in that shot blocking. The question is will he turn be Chris Andersen/Turiaf? Is he an Al Horford? Depends a lot on his offense and rebounding. And so far the offense has been encouraging. The defense is already there.
Udoh's gonna have to drop the nice guy demeanor if he wants to really excel. I think he has it in him to be a starter in the league. I mean, look at Haslem. He doesn't really do any one thing well, but he hustles and has grit. I mean, Haslem is more athletic than Udoh, but if Udoh can work and develop a 15 foot jumpshot from the top and the baseline, he'll have starter minutes somewhere.
Haslem's a good rebounder, knows his role, has that money midrange shot. I think Udoh could be much more impactful on defense and as an offensive player. Hes a very good passer and we've seen some of the post skills and the beginnings of what could be a similar mid-range J. We can't give up on him too early though. These guys take time to develop.
I thought Udoh did a good job on Utah's bigs defensively and on the glass. It would be interesting to see Jefferson's and Millsap's stats when Udoh was in comprex to him being out. When the Jazz made the come back to close the second quarter, it was right after Udoh came out and Lee's guy kept getting the offensive board. I hope the big come in for big subs continue and was not just for that game, and Vlad is not included as a big. If we are going to play him as a big then I wish we just kept Adrien instead.
Udoh has a knack for not getting that big rebound in traffic. Last night there was one play, late in the 3rd, where he was in perfect position, weakside, inside position, and the ball came off the rim, short, and went weakside and.....Udoh's man (Millsap or Jefferson) gets the rebound. Just disheartening. He's played well everywhere but rebounding.
I'm starting to lose faith in Biedrins now. I've been a big supporter of his. I still think he's a great rebounder and effective on offense when his teammates look for him, but I think his limitations on offense and his constant foul trouble are hurting the team more than his rebounding is helping. I could be wrong on this. The way I see Beans is he's got the length to be an effective center, but he doesn't have the strength. What he lacks in strength he makes up for in speed and quickness, but that requires a bit of precision and is contingent on your teammates to take advantage of it. I think his teammates are failing him, but it's not really their fault. We can't expect Curry or Monta to be like Baron or Stephen Jackson who have the strength to get where they want on the court. Beans has a motor but it's like a 4-cylinder turbocharged motor. It requires precision to get the most out of it. What we need is a guy that has a supercharged V8 motor who when presses on the gas pedal, he makes shit move with force. Granted, who is out there that fits this description and who do we have to get that type of player? I can't think of any right now. All I know is the Warriors' front court lacks intimidation. I guess we could say this about the entire team, especially on defense. But specifically about Beans, the guy doesn't strike fear into his opponent on either side of the court. At least with Lee, we can feel comfortable he can make something happen with the ball in his hands. With Beans, it's a crap shoot and when he does do something like a nice up and under move, you're kinda disappointed he didn't get contact or throw in a pump fake to at least get the defender in foul trouble and/or convert the And 1. But if we look down the roster, we have a promising guy in Udoh who isn't a center, but plays a lot bigger than he is. He may lack the strength right now, but he's got the knack to make a difference on defense. The kid needs to play more. I'm very impressed with him. Perhaps it's time to entertain mixing it up a bit with the starting 5 if there are no trades available to us that would help improve this front court situation.
Beans is fooling himself because he stares at refs in disbelief when he's callled for a foul when he fails to (1) stand his ground and set himself; and (2) fails to go straight up with his arms. I think he actually thinks he's a good defender when he's not. He's not a bad lefty hook but did you see B Wright's jump hook (okay it was over Nash)? That was 10 times better and smoother than Beans' hook.
Udoh is the team's best defender. Lee is so bad on that end of the floor that Udoh should get minutes in front of Lee at times. Udoh averages .92 blocks in about 12 minutes a game. Biedrins averages a few hundredths more in over twice the minutes per game. Lee is like a guard in blocks. As long as Biedrins and Udoh are playing defense, clearing the glass, moving to be effective offensively, while shooting a solid percentage, then I can't complain about their offense not being the most polished or smooth. I definitely thin Udoh should be getting 20 minutes each game.
I agree that Udoh should play more. I'd like to see him in the 4Q and crunch time eventually more than starting. I think Biedrins' ego is too fragile for him to lose his starter's role right now. What threw me was Keith Smart said Udoh wasn't in shape yet and that he was gassed during the Suns game. If that's the case, then I just like to see Smart keep Udoh in and not yank him if he makes a mistake or misses a shot. During the Suns game, Udoh missed a couple of free throws and he was yanked. Give him consistent minutes even if they're not in crunch time.
I was about to give Smart more of a chance after the Chicago game and hearing about how the Warriors play good 'D' for three games straight. But the Suns game was killer. Last night's game against the Nugz was his substitutions. It was due to a bit of luck we won. Warriors need to get revenge tonight by making adjustments and get back to playing 'D.'
