I guess what I was suggesting is that any student who does that is severely clueless, so, yeah, they need to be shown just how clueless they are. And by "does that", I mean writes a thesis that his or her adviser disagrees with. It's like jumping off a tall building. Most people don't do it because they know they'll splat. A few people do it because they know they'll splat. It takes some serious cluelessness to do it because you are unaware of the possibility of splatting. barfo
gotcha. Forget research and analysis...go with continuing to perpetuate the bias of an professor, no matter what the research says. It's not at all like jumping off a tall building. It's like going to court presided by a judge who you didn't believe had been paid off. It doesn't matter if you present your case infallibly, if the corruption is for you, you win. If not, you lose. And that's neither a "life lesson that needs to be learned" or a "serious cluelessness" on the part of the plaintiff. Unless you're saying that corruption should be embraced, and the plaintiff should've known that.
Same for me. I often wrote what the prof wanted and it made my life a lot easier. If they wanted a liberal slant, so be it. If they wanted conservative, no problem. Poli-sci was my minor. I have 2 stepsons just finishing college and they had to learn the same lesson the hard way.
Shouldn't you say that you love this thread? The grades will be posted on the wall outside my office.
You don't choose a judge; you do choose a graduate adviser. Whose fault is it if you make a stupid choice, and then compound the error with stubborness and/or cluelessness? Who do you think is going to win, the professor or the student? Do you walk into traffic when the walk light comes on, even if there is a speeding car coming at you? After all, you have righteousness on your side. And that's all that matters in the real world, right? barfo
I can't fathom how you're turning research into a game, and how doing the right thing is "stubbornness and cluelessness". Are you seriously implying that if the professor says 2+2=6, then your research better affirm your advisor's opinion, rather than be an "original work of research"?
It's unfortunate, but there's some truth in what barfo says. When my wife got her Masters and a couple of her friends their PHD's to one degree or another they had to appease the profs and if that meant, to them, a somewhat disingenuous thesis that was the way it was going to be. Typically profs delight in showing off their authority and demanding what they want and not what the student has to offer in the advancement of their field. Welcome to the world of academia.
The rational person, in that situation, finds a new adviser. Fighting unwinnable battles when there are viable alternatives is not "doing the right thing". That's "doing the stupid thing". Surely they teach you that in the military? If they don't they should. barfo
Not when the goal is the search for truth. The point you're missing is that academicians don't even realize they posses biases; they have their worldview reinforced by living in an echo chamber.
Everyone is full of shit and knows nothing. Despite that they think they know everything. Issue resolved, maybe, wait for sure... Let's put this whole concept into context, what we think we know now will look like complete ignorance 100 years from now. People used to think salt was gold, now you get it free at McDonalds.
I was going to do a senior thesis for a pre-law course about how Title IX had impacted the lives of many wrestlers around the country. I had called at least a dozen of top wrestlers, some who had lost their scholarships in the past 5 years, to see how their lives were affected by it. Going into my advisory meeting with the prof, who happened to be a feminist, I was armed with phone conversations and data. 5 minutes into my presentation, she said that it probably wasn't a good idea. Instead, I ended up writing a 20-page pile of crap that was sourced from the New York Times, USA Today, and my own university (among other sources, including phone interviews) on how Title IX was such a fantastic law, and how many women were now on the track to college. I received glowing reviews, and eventually the paper was published as "proof" of Title IX's impact on gender equality. So, I wrote a paper that was the opposite of what I wanted to write, and I did it all for a grade that helped get me into law school. Yee-fucking-haw. I do still consider this episode one of the best learning experiences in my life, and it has led me to being my own boss. If I fail or if I succeed, it's on me, and not on the whims/beliefs/values/conspiracy theories of somebody else.
It's not just the world of academia. It's the entire work world. Bob Dylan says it's even bigger, it's cosmological. ------------- You may be a state trooper, you might be an young turk You may be the head of some big TV network You may be rich or poor, you may be blind or lame You may be living in another country under another name. You may be a preacher with your spiritual pride You may be a city councilman taking bribes on the side You may be working in a barbershop, you may know how to cut hair You may be somebody's mistress, may be somebody's heir. But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed You're gonna have to serve somebody, It may be the devil or it may be the Lord But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
Yes, it's that simple, isn't it? What's your educational background, barfo? It probably didn't matter, though, because I'm guessing if anything, you tended to be to the left of your "adviser".
Are you speaking of the student, or the professor? The professor is a lost cause - he's got tenure and no reason to change his worldview. The student can still save himself. You can search for the truth at any university, working under any professor. You don't have to do it with a professor who fundamentally disagrees with your approach. Of course, for the student there is always the possibility that the professor is right, and the student is wrong. Just because you believe you are right (or righteous) doesn't mean you are. I'd suggest if you are enough of a moron to keep working for a prof that doesn't believe in your work, you have decent odds to be enough of a moron to be wrong about the subject matter too. Although those are two rather different types of moron, so there's also good odds you are only one of those sorts of morons rather than both. Too bad the student is usually unaware of which type of moron he might be. barfo
Thanks for your suggestions. How many graduate degrees do you possess? You seem pretty sure of your position and the realities of the modern university, so certainly you can add how you came about these opinions.
Yes, it is that simple. I got me some degrees and shit. I wasn't inclined to write anything political, so it didn't really matter. barfo
Academia is no different from the work world, the military, religion, etc. You gotta serve somebody. When some in the academic world try to make it better than the real world, conservatives belittle such attempts as a utopian ivory tower. But when it goes against you guys, you try to have it both ways. So which is it? Should academia be free of the real world and be a utopian ivory tower? Or should it be as biased as the business world, subject to the whim of the boss?
Whoa, you mean the average income is less than 100k$? Why aren't there tons of money hungry republicans jumping all over that opportunity? And it only takes 8+ years to get there? I can't imagine why they have a liberal bias.
I didn't mean them as suggestions for you! I meant "I suggest" in the sense of "I would argue that". I'm not sure if I possess them, or if they possess me. I'll avoid answering the question explicitly (I'll stipulate that your g-penis is bigger than mine, however big yours is) but I will say that if I had it to do over again I'd hope I could gain that wisdom another way. In hindsight, it's kind of inefficient. But then I didn't know at the time what I needed to know, so some searching was called for. Well, I spent a lot of years, 15 or so, hanging about various campuses. It is the case that I've spent much less (but not zero) time with academics over the past 20 years, so if things have changed significantly there is a possibility I might not be aware of it. I'm counting on S2 to let me know if that's the case. barfo
