In the last 22 years, the Jazz won less than 41 games twice. And in those years, they won 40 and 26. That kind of consistency and winning should not be dismissed.
I'm not dismissing it. I'm saying it didn't lead to a title, and Sloan has had All-Stars and Olympians for much of his coaching career. Now that his talent level is down (only 1 All-Star/Olympian), his team is struggling.
Considering we don't have a coach signed for next year, I would love to see Sloan on the open market. But he did just sign an extension, so I'm guessing he's not getting fired merely days later.
Good point. Utah is as thin as the Blazers, but not because of injuries. Williams hinted at being distraught over the Jazz not retaining players and then Sloan has to play a team that starts Boozer and brings Korver and Brewer off the bench. Korver and Brewer and Matthews could have really helped the Jazz this season and Utah was in a position to keep all three if they were willing to spend for them. I'm guessing whatever conversation originally happened could have easily turned into a Sloan bitch session to management. I would have liked to see that pissed off look he gets. If I'm not wearing ref shirt, I think the man would physically intimidate me.
I was going to post a response to the OP but then I remembered you really can't argue with the insane. Salt Lake City may be the only market in the NBA less desirable then Portland for NBA players, yet that team has had at least as much success as Portland over their history. And they have done it with teams that had no business even making the playoffs much less being a threat. If you think that isn't impressive then you have to be either blind, mentally handicapped or insane.
They had 2 of the Top 20 players in NBA history for over a decade, and 2 Olympians for half of this decade. How can you say they had no business being in the playoffs?
Utah is screwed, even with Kirilenko off the books they have 59 mil in committed capspace next yr, and after next year Williams can opt out and I think it's highly likely he won't be back as Utah won't spend. Our capspace situation could be decent the summer after this - much depends what we do with greg and how the Roy situation plays out. I wonder if SLC will try to get some value for Williams now or be stupid like Denver and the others and let the clock run out? I'd love a trade for Williams.
He had Stockton and Malone for 15 years, missed the playoffs for 2 years without them after they left/retired, and then got Williams, Kirilenko, Okur, and Boozer, missed the playoffs the first year with them, and then had 4 playoff teams with them, averaging 52 wins with those players, and not making an NBA Finals. I think Jerry Sloan has does less, with more, than many coaches in the NBA. He had Stockton/Malone for a decade-and-a-half, not a half-decade, and when he lost his Hall of Fame players, he didn't make the playoffs for 3 straight years.
roy isn't going anywhere unless it's for similarly bad contracts, and in 2012 batum will have to be paid as will rudy if he's still around. also the new CBA will be more restrictive. there is pretty much zero chance we will have "decent" cap space.
God, I swear people here post outrageously stupid shit just to get a reaction. I mean, people can't really be this dumb, can they? Jerry Sloan, underachieved??? You can't possibly be serious. His record speaks for itself. Name one other team that can match the Jazz won:loss record over the 22+ years Sloan has been in Utah. During that time, the Jazz have a winning percentage of 0.623. That's an averge of 51 wins per season for 22+ years in an incredibly small, undesirable market with cash strapped ownership. Anyone who thinks his system is inferior, or that he "underachieved" should be permanently banned from any and all baskteball related forums, because it's obvious you are either troll or don't have a fucking clue about the game of basketball. First of all, basketball is a team sport. No one player, no matter how great, no coach and no system wins NBA titles. It takes a combination of great players (notice the plural), a great coach, a great system that maximizes the talents of the players, and a bit of luck. In the 22+ years that Sloan has been coaching Utah, exactly 7 coaches have been fortunate enough to win NBA championships and many first ballot Hall of Fame players have failed to win a title -and the great players who won championships didn't do it by themselves. Were Barkley, Malone, Ewing, Stockton, Chris Mullin, Domique Wilkens, etc.. not great players? What abouit Steve Nash, LeBron James, Dirk Nowitski, Jason Kidd? Not a single NBA championship among them. Even the great players who won rings needed help and a bit of luck. Michael Jordan didn't win any rings without both Scottie Pippen, Phil Jackson and the Triangle Offense. If Jordan hadn't taken two years off to play baseball, Hakeem, one of the greatest all around players in the history of the game has zero rings (as does Clyde). If not for Jordan retiring and the Spurs lucking into Tim Duncan, David Robinson has zero rings. Shaq has zero rings without Kobe/Phil and Wade/Riley. I could go on and on. The point is, you can't "blame" Sloan for the fact the Jazz never won an NBA championship while he was there. He took them to the finals twice, and if not for a guy named Michael Jordan, would probably have two rings. And, as far as Stockton and Malone are concerned, who the fuck do you think made them into two of the greatest 50 players of all time? Whose system made them into first ballot Hall of Famers? Neither player was remotely considered a future hall of famer coming out of college. They were both decent players, but both were from small schools and had lots of question marks about them. Stockton was undersized and unathletic. He played for a small school in a weak conference and never even made the NCAA tournament. Malone was an undisciplineed head case. He was very raw. He had to sit out his freshman year due to bad grades and his production at Louisiana Tech actually declined each of the three years he played there. His scoring average was down to 16.5ppg by his final season. He did get his team to the NCAA tournament twice, but only made it as far as the Sweet 16 once. Neither player had superstar written all over them. Both were cut from the 1984 US Olympic team. Malone was picked 13th and Stockton 16th. But, thanks to Sloan and his system, a system that maximized their talents, Malone and Stockton both became first ballot hall of famers. Malone retired second on the career scoring list, ahead of Wilt and Jordan, trailing only Kareem. Stockton is the career leader in asists, and his record may never be broken. He retired with 15,806 assists. Jason Kidd is second, almost 4500 assists behind Stockton with 11,354 and counting. Just to give you an idea how impressive 15,806 assists is, consider this: Steve Nash is currently in his 15th NBA season, he is 37 years old, is a two time MVP, has had a very long, relatively injury free career and is widely considered one of the greatest passing PGs to ever play the game. He currently has 8919 career assists - 6887 behind Stockton. Without Sloan and his system, neither Stockton or Malone would have had the careers they did. So, saying he underachieved because he didn't win an NBA championship with two of the greatest players in NBA history totally ignores the role Sloan had in developing those two great players. Sloan's resignation is going to hurt the Jazz for years to some. Honestly, I hope the Blazers let Nate walk and as soon as the season is over immediately offer a huge pile of cash to Jerry Sloan to be the Blazers next head coach. I'd love to have an "underachiever" like that leading our team. BNM
I agree with everything you said - with the exception that the above is not going to happen. Sloan does not need the money - even if Paul Allen buys the museums of John Deer and Allis Chalmers and gives them to Sloan - he is probably done. In the future you are probably going to be able to replace Roger Welsch's picture with Sloans.
Where did I ever say that Stockton and Malone weren't great players? I said the opposite, actually, and have them in the top 20 of all time. That Jerry Sloan failed to win a title with them in 15 years is a mark against Sloan, IMO. I think he undercoached his talent, and when he had no talent after Malone and Stockton left, he didn't coach his teams to the playoffs for two years, and then failed in the first year of the Boozer/Williams/Okur/Kirilenko as well to get to the playoffs. I think he's an overrated coach. A good coach? Sure. A very good coach? Sure. A great coach? Nope. And now, he's a quitter. He can go sit next to Larry Brown and talk about quitting, although I wouldn't blame Brown if he wore his NBA ring that he won as a coach. As a side note, I am consistently amazed at how you can construct a strawman argument that nobody has made, and then spend 1000 words debating against it. After that, the "reps" and "you tell 'ems" roll in, but the truth of what was posted is actually lost. It's quite a talent, and I say that with respect.
Why would Paul Allen throw loads of cash to get a coach who wins 50 games and doesn't win titles? He already has one of those coaches, and his current coach has done it with less talented players and through more adversity.
What should Kevin O'Connor have received for getting Sloan good players after Sloan's teams didn't make the playoffs the first two seasons after Stockton and Malone left the Jazz? Larry Miller's son is the real culprit here if you're going to bash kevin O'Connor, since he's actually treating the team as a business and trying to not spend as much money. I think criticizing Kevin O'Connor is unfair. He gave Sloan 2 U.S. Olympians, plus two All-Stars (Kirilenko, Okur), and Sloan did squat with them.
I have no problems with Nate - but I most certainly have no problems with Sloan. The man has done wonders in Utah, got great production from someone like Stockton that was not a physical specimen even among NBA point guards, reigned in Boozer, has a fantastic system which is usually pretty to see - and can't argue about his accomplishments. He was going against a team with better players than his (top to bottom when they went to the finals twice) - and playing them tough. Dude is a stud.
