It is a tough call. My gut call is to stick with Asik. I like him. He's going to get better. Jo has not proved durable so far, because he's so high energy. KT is a one year solution. Taj? He doesn't work at center. Brewer and Korver need to play more before we hand over Asik for Lee. Now, I'm no expert on Lee. So I may be selling him short. Just my feelings. Thankfully, it's not my call.
I'm with you on this one. I would certainly rather have Asik and Jason Richardson than Lee and a Thomas type stiff for the next 3-4 seasons. I mean, it's a no brainer. I really don't get the love for Lee. Reminds me of ERob - one good playoff series and you think he's had his breakout series. As I see it, this season may well be our best shot at a championship because as we load up for bear, so will Miami. And Miami has a better starting position. So making a deal for Lee that doesn't put us over the top is silly. I see some merit to DC's idea, but we're not talking about (Lee) a guy with huge upside. If it were Asik for OJ Mayo, where do we sign? That's a guy with huge upside. http://boards.grizzliesonline.com/index.php?showtopic=11142 The Bulls and Grizzlies had discussed a Mayo to Chicago deal, but the Grizzlies are asking for Taj Gibson, Omer Asik, James Johnson, and the Charlotte draft pick. The Bulls will not do that trade, but have considered doing a Gibson, Johnson, Bogans for Mayo deal, which Memphis wouldn’t do at this point.
I suppose I might rather have Asik and JRich, but I don't think that'd be a likely possibility (for the reasons I've laid out in detail). Why does OJ Mayo have huge upside and Lee doesn't?
Wow this is dumb. Paxson's interest aren't aligned with the franchises? I don't think even Denny would say something that off the wall... (And even he disagrees...)
For all the love Lee is getting, why is his career high in PER 12.88? He's 25 or 26, so it isn't like he's a one-and-done'r. He is pretty much what he's going to be at this point. If it is JJ and and the bulls first rounder, it might be worth a shot. But there is no way they should give up a promising big in Asik when their backup is 38 and their starter has a hard time playing 60 games a year. Plus, Lee is going to want to sign an extension with a raise after next year.
OJ Mayo was drafted 3rd overall in a strong draft, and hasn't done anything to show he wasn't deserving of it. Courtney Lee was a 22nd pick, and plays roughly like a 22nd pick. By definition, you expect the 3rd pick to have a higher upside than the 22nd pick. Mayo has already averaged 17.5+ PPG over two seasons as a starter, is only 23, and plugged in as starter next to Rose might be able to step up his game to mid-20s. I don't think anyone expects anything close to that from Lee.
Mayo is still only 23 and has averaged ~18 ppg in two seasons. With some good coaching he might be salvageable. But he's only 6'4" so he might be on the small side and not the defender the bulls need next to Rose. So I wouldn't bet the future on him either.
Maybe... but I see lots of reasons to be concerned about Mayo. 1. Ball dominating player. He's not at all a guy who seems to move off the ball or catch and shoot. That's a problem with DRose and Boozer, and he's not demonstrated he's good enough (a la Melo) to be worth the chance. Melo has demonstrated in international play and with the Nuggets he can work well with other star players. Mayo has not. 2. Recently got punched out by a teammate. 3. Recently got suspended for illegal substances. 4. Supposedly on the trading block from a team fighting for a playoff spot. So if he actually is available, the price is going to be way too steep. So yeah, I think he's better than Courtney Lee. I also think Courtney Lee plus all the assets we'd have to give up to get Mayo is better than Mayo. I still don't actually think we'd HAVE to give up Asik to get Lee and if we did, we'd probably get a reasonable big back. I think there's little to no chance of a deal like that happening with Mayof
You can't be a SG and have a great PER if you are only averaging 13 points per 36 minutes. Even if you are a good SG, your Per is going to be around 12-13. Yet, many championship teams win with one starting wing player with a low PER. Courtney Lee *is* that guy IHMO. He is darn near the perfect complement to Rose and the rest of the team. Omer is less than one year younger and his PER is worse than Lee. He has more room to grow b/c he *might* fix his FT problem and also has had less time in the league. All things being equal, you keep Asik. But all things aren't equal, we need Lee more than Asik this season.
how about we trade for morrow? Im sure it wouldnt hurt to have the all time leader is 3pt% on our team
This "you don't trade big for small especially if one is not starting" mentality strikes me as the type of thing you say when you aren't familiar with a player. The Bulls were forced to take small over big once and ended up with the best player in the history of the NBA. The Bulls selected big over small three years ago and ended up with the face of the franchise. Teams select small players over big players in terms of value all the time. Drafting isn't a direct analogy but I think the concept stands. I haven't seen enough of Lee to make a proper evaluation but one thing that is clear from his box scores is that he drops fifteen points every ten games or so. Lee's clearly capable of putting up big numbers and Kevin Martin is a GOOD player. I completely understand why another good player, especially a younger player, wouldn't get many minutes coming off the bench at the same position. I'm just reading the stats like most of the rest of us (need to watch more Rockets) but I'm not going to rule Lee out with a tired aphorism like Sam Smith did.
I think the bulls were forced to take the guy that was left. And Hakeem might have won more than 2 rings if he had played with Pippen in his prime and had PJ as his coach. And the bulls would have taken him over Jordan in a heartbeat, and so would have every other GM in the league. That was a pretty stacked draft. The first and third picks won 8 of the championships of the 90's.
Personally, it's rather obvious we need a staring SG and a beefy presence in the post. How about we sign Jerry Sloan and Tom Boerwinkle to fill those spots? I hear they're both available.
I watched the rockets game last night and was surprised by Lee. I was expecting the Bulls to target a young vet (or older vet) who would be able to come in and immediately contribute as a starting shooting guard, and Lee isn't that. He looked to me like a player that still hasn't adjusted to the pace of the NBA. I'd put Lee more in the talented young player who hasn't quite made the adjustment crowd. The good: Lee has a lightening quick release and is pretty fast. He looked fine in the open court with the ball in his hands, and looks like he should be able to develop a driving game and a floater. Lee has tons of talent and tries on defense. The bad: Lee spent a lot of time invisible on the court and never asserted himself on offense or defense. He lost his man on defense multiple times (because of experience, not effort) and doesn't understand how to fight over screens. His driving game is extremely limited and opposing players were giving him a wide cushion because he wasn't a threat with the ball in his hands. He looked like a rookie and he's not a rookie, he's a third year player who has gotten minutes in his first three seasons. There was no sense of urgency in his offensive play and he was often content to make weak passes swinging the ball when time was ticking off the shot clock. Bottom line: I'm not convinced Lee would get very many minutes this season with Thibodeau's reluctance to play young players. He's not as good a defender as Bogans and struggles at the things that Thibodeau places a premium upon, mistake-free, team-orientated ball. Lee is not a chucker but doesn't have a great feel for when he should try to force things on offense and when it's okay to sit back. I would still rather have Battier to be honest. I don't care how old he is, his game is as pretty as ever. Battier would struggle with smaller, quicker twos but all of the playoff contenders play longer slower guards. Battier consistently hits open jumpers, makes plays on offense, and provides strong physical defense. If the Bulls are looking for a plug-and-play two guard who can come in and instantly take the team up a notch, that's the way to go. I'd advocate: (1) buying stock in ice supply companies; (2) trading for the old man.
Nice rundown, SST. I appreciate the fact that you watch Rockets' games so I don't have to. IMO, there's still no substitute for "eyes on the game." I don't like the "3rd year rookie" thing, but realize that it was only one game. However, given that his stat line wasn't all that bad, no one can say that you cherry-picked a particularly bad game for Lee. While I would still rather have Lee than Bogans, your review offered no ammunition for giving up a lot to get him. Thanks.
