I feel this topic needs to be restarted. It just needs to be a totally new topic, and not a runon from the old topic.IMO, Wade has proven this postseason why I felt he was better than Bron a few months ago. Scoring-wise, I don't care if he isn't as polished of an outside jumpshooter, he can get any jumpshot he wants, can hit the 15-18ft jumpshot almost at will, and can drive to basket at will. Bron is a better passer, but Wade is also FANTASTIC and both are equal playmakers. Rebounding goes to Bron, although Wade is about 5 inches shorter than Bron. Defense, no contest, Wade is the winner.Now, the intangibles. MJ was probably the best scorer all time, and one of best perimeter defender of all time, but this is not why he was the GOAT. Aside from those things, he did EVERYTHING well, and could take over games no matter the situation. He could win games and rise to the occasion when it counted most. He could carry teams to wins in finals and playoff games, and would even go off for 60 points if need be (like against Celtics).Wade is very much the same. He does everything VERY well, and he takes over games. Against Pacers and NO in 2004 playoffs in his rookie year he hit game winners and took over games and forced top seeded Pacers to 6 games. Next year, he carried a Heat team through playoffs while Shaq was injured, and the reason they lsot vs Pistons in 7 games was because of HIS injury. .......and then this year. 17 straight points and game winner vs Pistons who were nearly unbeatable in season and played amazing defense, practically beat Pistons by himself while shooting 70%, and then in the Finals, the biggest stage of them all, has hit game winning free throws twice, made a game winning stop, made game tying shot with 2 seconds left, had 3 straight games of over 35pts, has tied and broken his career scoring high in span of 3 games in FINALS against a VERY good defensive team, and has had 2 games with over 15pts in 4th quarter to send game into overtime both games.In other words, Wade is just amazing. Period.
Please, Wade is a great player but Wade has been blessed with Shaq, better teammates and one of the top coaches of all-time, i'm not taking anything away from Wade but come on.
Wade has been doing it even before Shaq though. He carried that heat team with clutch shots and performances to beat #1 seeded Pacers. Past 2 years with Shaq being either A) Ineffective or Unhealthy, he has taken over games at the end, hit game winning shots, and had career nights while Shaq has missed free throws at ends of games and had career worst performances.This is not like comparing Kobe to T-Mac a few years back. Wade is not blessed with the best center in the league, and is not blessed with role players to carry a bulk of the load. Unlike the Kobe/Shaq duo, Wade is the leader, not Shaq. he has carried this team. He is also averaging better overall numbers than Kobe ever has had, minus maybe 2002-2003, but that is debatable.And Wade has had Pat Riley as a coach for 3/12 of his NBA career....5/12 of his career he was just as good with Stan as he was with Riley, and the other 4/12 he was a rookie and doing some amazing things....Shaq and Riley have minimal impact on his greatness.
Recentley this is a hard comparison. It might just be that I havent seen LeBron play in a while, but seeing Wade play the way hes played the last few games makes it seem that he is better.
Lebron in a heart beat. I'm not even going to explain my self because i find this thread ludicrious. All i'm going to say is that when watching lebron, you are watching history unfolding before our eyes. Same can be said about wade but the historical factors side with Lebron. You can also add to the fact that Lebron is the better scorer, shooter, passer and better court vision. He's also lately become a clutch monster.Lebron is the truth and we need to deal with it.
Lebron is the better scorer, rebounder, passer, drives to the basket a little better. He is bigger so it's easier for him. Wade may be slightly better on D but LeBron can get steals too. Wade is a top 5 player and will have a great career, but James is just way better. Like Melo said, LeBron in a heartbeat.
I love Wade and everyting, but seriously. I dont know why anyone would take him over LeBron, James is better on offense and they are equal at the defensive end. Even though Wade has done amazing things in the playoffs, James is better. Also, James is younger and will probably have a longer career.
Wade and LeBron aren't the same defensively, which is LeBron's biggest problem so far. Wade has been great in the finals so far, he has done some amazing things but that shouldn't take away from LeBron. Look at what LeBron did with an average Cavalier team, almost eliminated the eastern conference champions in the second round. 'Bron was also clutch as well, he hit two game winners against the Wizards while averaging 35 points per game. LeBron is the better player overall, Wade has a much better team then LeBron does, I'm not trying to take away from everything he has done in this years playoffs but I'd like to see him lead a team to the finals before I can decide just yet.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ArizonaFan @ Jun 19 2006, 03:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Lebron is the better scorer, rebounder, passer, drives to the basket a little better. He is bigger so it's easier for him. Wade may be slightly better on D but LeBron can get steals too. Wade is a top 5 player and will have a great career, but James is just way better. Like Melo said, LeBron in a heartbeat.</div>I take LeBron, but wait? LeBron can drive to the basket better? Since when? DWade is the best slasher on the planet.
Wow, I didnt even see that, Wade is the best at driving inside in the NBA, Im not saying he's better than James but there is no way that anyone can compete with Wade at driving to the basket.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo_061 @ Jun 19 2006, 03:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Lebron in a heart beat. I'm not even going to explain my self because i find this thread ludicrious. All i'm going to say is that when watching lebron, you are watching history unfolding before our eyes. Same can be said about wade but the historical factors side with Lebron. You can also add to the fact that Lebron is the better scorer, shooter, passer and better court vision. He's also lately become a clutch monster.Lebron is the truth and we need to deal with it.</div>When you watch Bron you see history unfold in front of your eyes? So Wade doing what only 3 players have done in NBA history (3 straight games of over 35 points) is not more historic than Bron pushing a staggered Pistons team to 7 games? Him getting over 15 points in 4th quarters of most important games in the Finals (game 3 when down -2, game 5 when tied 2-2, last game at home) incluidng game winning free throws, game tying shots, and game winning defensive stops isn't historic enough for you? Him scoring 35PPG in the Finals and pretty much carrying a Heat team to a championship is not historic for a Kobe fan who praises KObe so much for that one game in 2001 Finals where he went 4-4 in OT and won the game?Once again, MJ is considered better than Wilt and Oscar because of his overall greatness, not amazing statline (although Wade's 27PPG on 50% shooting, 7APG, 2SPG, and 6RPG is pretty damn impressive). He is a winner, did it in rookie year with mediocre team and led heat to 2nd round with a game winner in first round, and pushed top seeded Pacers to 6 games. He did it without Shaq last year in playoffs, and did it with an unhealthy Shaq last year in playoffs. HIS injury is reason why they didn;t beat Pistons, not Shaq's. And this year he has just been unstoppable in 4th quarters and ha simrpoved overall game greatly.Also, Wade is a better scorer IMO. He takes better shots and is more efficient. I don't care if he can't shoot 3 over double teams like Bron, Kobe and T-Mac....he takes great shots which is equally as effective. He is the better defender, and equal playmaker (Bron is better passer, but Wade sets up teammates and runs offense better). Wade is better defender, and Bron is better rebounder. It's very, VERY close, but Wade has proven the past 3 years in playoff team why he si the better player.
Wade has a MUCH better team and if LeBron switched places with him the NBA season would already be over. I don't know what playoffs you were watching if you don't think LeBron was great in the 4th quarters. He was and he carried his average team farther than anyone expected. He is a winner also. I hate using the argument that one player reached the Finals and one didn't because Wade CLEARY HAS THE MUCH BETTER TEAM. And I know Shaq isn't the player he used to be but just his prescense on the floor makes the difference and he was great for most of the playoffs. The Heat didn't lose last year because of Wade's injury. Didn't like the whole starting line-up have an injury last year? lolLeBron got more points and rebounds and they were close in assists. Wade is not the better scorer though. I may have been wrong about LeBron being better driving to the basket, but I saw him do it with ease this playoffs and throw down a dunk. He can shoot much better than Wade(16% better from 3's). He is much better on the offensive end. He gets an advantage because he's much bigger than Wade so it's easier for him to shoot over guys and he drives very strong to the basket.Wade is better at D, but LeBron is so much more dangerous on offense.Wade's field goal percentage is 1% higher, I don't think that's really more efficient. I'd rather have a guy that can drive to the basket and shoot the 3 much better. LeBron is a much tougher player to guard with all the things he can do and his size. Didn't LeBron play point guard too for a while? He's a good playmaker.You're talking about how Wade took a good Pacers team to the 2nd round that year without Shaq but LeBron took his team to 7 against the Pistons, the best team in the league at the time, when they were supposed to be beaten quickly. That is more impressive I think.LeBron is better than Wade and even every single Heat fan agrees with that. I think Wade is a top 5 player, but LeBron is #2 and will be #1 in the near future.Just letting you know I'm not a Wade hater though... I watched him at Marquette and I loved him and Deiner.
[quote name='ArizonaFan' post='94293' date='Jun 19 2006, 03:52 PM']Wade has a MUCH better team and if LeBron switched places with him the NBA season would already be over. I don't know what playoffs you were watching if you don't think LeBron was great in the 4th quarters. He was and he carried his average team farther than anyone expected. He is a winner also. I hate using the argument that one player reached the Finals and one didn't because Wade CLEARY HAS THE MUCH BETTER TEAM. And I know Shaq isn't the player he used to be but just his prescense on the floor makes the difference and he was great for most of the playoffs. The Heat didn't lose last year because of Wade's injury. Didn't like the whole starting line-up have an injury last year? lol[/quote]But with all those injuries they were up 3-2 against the Pistons until Wade was injured. And no, wade doesn't have a MUCH better team. Z and Hughes are just as good as Shaq and any other role player on Heat. They alos have Donyell Marshall, Damon Jones, Drew Gooden, Eric Snow, etc... I agree the Heat are better than Cavs, but Wade's 2nd option and role players aren't that much better than Bron's. LeBron made some great plays down the stretch, but never the 15 point 4th quarters that Wade is getting. Wade shot 5 less shots per game, and only 5PPG less than Bron. Yes Bron got more RPG, but it's because he is aroudn 4 inches taller. One is a guard, one is a foward, so grabbing 1 RPG more isn't a big accomplishment. He drove to basket so easily against Wizards because their D is god awful. He didn't do that vs Pistons, though, and was forced to hit jumpshots. And once again, he isn't much better on the offensive end. Wade is just as good, if not better scorer than LeBron, and just as good, if not better playmaker than bron. Bron has some of the best passing ability on planet, but I feel Wade can run an offense better, while bron is more suitable as a swingman. Once again, no he isn't so much more dangerous. It's like comparing MJ to Magic Johnson, MJ was better and more efficient scorer, while Magic could hit the 3 and had better passing ability. But what made MJ better was his D and the intangibles, which is exactly how the Wade/LeBron arguement is. It's a little more than 1%, but you will RARELY see Wade go for under 40-45% shooting, while Bron is extremely streaky. Sometimes he will go 8-24, others he will go 10-15. And while bron is larger, Wade can outpower any guard/SF in the league, outquick any player in league, and has ball handling skills and agressiveness to do whatever he wants int erms of getting places (as seen yesterday on final Heat possession, he got through about 4 Mavs players to get to where he got). Pacers that year were WAY better than the Pistons of the playoffs this year. And Wade didn't have Larry Hughes, big Z, or some of those very good role players....he was a rookie and had Lamar Odom and Caron Butler, with only good player off bench being Rafer Alston. And once again, he was a ROOKIE, and took over games at end and hit game winners....it took LeBron 3 years to get to that point, and didn't take over at ends of games like wade did. Also, Bron played terribly in the Pistons series....26PPG on 44% shooting. The role players kept that series close. Wade up'd his game to the max against the Pacers. People are so caught up in the Bron hype and stats that they don't look at what makes Wade so special. It is like comparing MJ to Magic Johnson....very different players, and Magic had some of the overall flash and game while MJ made the intangibles his greatness. By intangibles I mean taking your heart out in 4th quarters and eating it while you slowly die, I mean playing tough defense and going for each loose ball and willing tot ake each and every hit, fall down, and get back up despite injury. I'm talking about the attitude to hit game winner with total confidence. I'm talking about being a winner.All of which Wade is far superior to Bron in, and actual stats and such they are actually surprisingly even.
Yeah, Big Z is just as good as Shaq, give me a break... Larry Hughes was injured for most of the season and gone for a good chunk of the playoffs. Damon Jones barely even played. Eric Snow isn't good at all. Take away LeBron and Wade and the Heat would kill the Cavs in a series. It took LeBron a bit longer because he didn't have the experience Wade has. He's two years younger and went to the NBA straight from high school. His first time in the playoffs this year he was as old as Wade was his first time and LeBron just dominated. LeBron got closer to 2 more rebounds I think, not 1. I do think LeBron is much more dangerous on offense but it's just a matter of opinion on who you think is the better playmaker. I'd rather have LeBron there personally...Pistons had the best record in the league this year. I think they were a bit better at least. And I do realize that Wade is special. This playoffs took him from top 10 on my list to top 5. He is a great player but I think LeBron is better and it's pretty foolish comparing Wade to MJ. Kobe and LeBron are in a class of their own.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ArizonaFan @ Jun 19 2006, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah, Big Z is just as good as Shaq, give me a break... Larry Hughes was injured for most of the season and gone for a good chunk of the playoffs. Damon Jones barely even played. Eric Snow isn't good at all. Take away LeBron and Wade and the Heat would kill the Cavs in a series. It took LeBron a bit longer because he didn't have the experience Wade has. He's two years younger and went to the NBA straight from high school. His first time in the playoffs this year he was as old as Wade was his first time and LeBron just dominated.</div>Never said Z was as good as Shaq, but right now in Finals Shaq is averaging 16/9...right around Z's season numbers. Lebron didn't dominate the Pistons series...26PPG on 44% shooting and 6APG isn't dominating and way below season numbers.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>LeBron got closer to 2 more rebounds I think, not 1. I do think LeBron is much more dangerous on offense but it's just a matter of opinion on who you think is the better playmaker. I'd rather have LeBron there personally...Pistons had the best record in the league this year. I think they were a bit better at least. And I do realize that Wade is special. This playoffs took him from top 10 on my list to top 5. He is a great player but I think LeBron is better and it's pretty foolish comparing Wade to MJ. I think Kobe and LeBron are in a class of their own.</div>Wade is much faster, much better at turning direction, better ballhandler, and much better at setting up offense....he is better playmaker. Yes Bron has better court vision and passing skills, but that doesn't make you better playmaker.Pacers had best record in 2003-2004, your point? And Pacers didn't collapse like Pistons did in playoffs. I never compared Wade to MJ, I compared their style and attitudes. I think it is rediculous to compare Bron to Magic, too. And for the record, I'd take Kobe, wade and iverson all over LeBron. Just for the fact that all 3 have the intagibles that Bron doesn't and stats are equally as great. All 3 are better at D, too. If a top 100 was written right now, Wade would be ranked higher than Bron due to what he has done and his overall greatness, just like why MJ is rated over Wilt, Big O, Larry and Magic.
Wade also averaged 26 and 6. The difference in their FG% was that Wade had Shaq who was having a great series too shooting at 60-70%. LeBron had to carry his team on his back the whole playoffs and had to shoot more. I still don't see why Wade is the better playmaker either. I don't think he's MUCH better at any of those things you said.And saying you'd take Iverson over LeBron right now is just crazy and made me want to just get out of this thread, but I live for arguing. Also, just in my opinion I see LeBron as the better team leader. To me he seems like someone that can lead a team to many championships without a 2nd superstar.
Lebron is 21 year olds, everything he does is historical even more so than Wade. Lebron is a much better passer, the fact that he averages 7aspg whilst his teamates miss open shots. So in my mind, his playmaking abilty puts Lebron ahead of wade.Honestly answer this, How good would the heat be with lebron?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jun 19 2006, 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Never said Z was as good as Shaq, but right now in Finals Shaq is averaging 16/9...right around Z's season numbers. Lebron didn't dominate the Pistons series...26PPG on 44% shooting and 6APG isn't dominating and way below season numbers.Wade is much faster, much better at turning direction, better ballhandler, and much better at setting up offense....he is better playmaker. Yes Bron has better court vision and passing skills, but that doesn't make you better playmaker.Pacers had best record in 2003-2004, your point? And Pacers didn't collapse like Pistons did in playoffs. I never compared Wade to MJ, I compared their style and attitudes. I think it is rediculous to compare Bron to Magic, too. And for the record, I'd take Kobe, wade and iverson all over LeBron. Just for the fact that all 3 have the intagibles that Bron doesn't and stats are equally as great. All 3 are better at D, too. If a top 100 was written right now, Wade would be ranked higher than Bron due to what he has done and his overall greatness, just like why MJ is rated over Wilt, Big O, Larry and Magic.</div>The Cavaliers supporting cast is nothing compared to the Heat's and you wanna know why LeBron didn't play that well against the Pistons? It's called double teaming and relying on other players to hit there shots, kinda like what Dallas has been doing to Shaq lately. The Pistons would clog the lanes and make sure Bron couldn't drive and forced him to hit the jumpshot and pass to his teamates which wouldn't hit crap.Also, Wade faced a inferior Detroit team this year as well, they were more of a scoring team and lost there defensive mentality. Wade has done some really incredible things in the finals but LeBron played well in only his first playoffs and an average team. No one and I mean no one predicted the Cavs to take the Pistons to 7 games, LeBron was the reason for that. In Wade's first season he had a good supporting cast to help him, he wasn't even the leading scorer on that team like he is now. Even during the regular season this year both him and Shaq were pretty much equal on terms of whos the leader of the team.Another thing, you said the Pistons collapsed in your posts. Well if your going to discredit LeBron for playing well against them then it's only fair to do the same to Wade, we all know the Pistons were not the same team they were last year with Larry Brown.
