Players who's careers have been ruined by management/owners

Re: Players who's careers have been ruined by management/owners

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nykfan4life @ Jun 24 2006, 03:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>yea i know mo was on the knicks but he never played with julius erving or moses malone. what's this kid talking about? julius played on the nets when they were in new york, or was that the aba?</div>New York Nets were an ABA team, Erving played with the Sixers his entire NBA career. Julius did play with Moses and Cheeks but he Moses or Erving never played with Ewing.

 

Re: Players who's careers have been ruined by management/owners

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KMart @ Jun 24 2006, 03:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Kevin Garnett posts are spot-on. They go to the Western Conference Finals, and then experience some set backs. Since then, they have made absolutely no attempt to get any talent around him. Ricky Davis is a solid player, don't get me wrong, but I feel Wally Z was better made for that team.Trade Kevin Garnett!</div>You don't think AI should be traded to Minny then Minny won't have to trade KG?

 

Re: Players who's careers have been ruined by management/owners

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Jun 24 2006, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>New York Nets were an ABA team, Erving played with the Sixers his entire NBA career. Julius did play with Moses and Cheeks but he Moses or Erving never played with Ewing.</div>i know cheeks played with moses and erving. i was saying that ewing didn't play with erving and moses.

 

Re: Players who's careers have been ruined by management/owners

I gotta say Carter back when he was with a rap. I understand where he was comming from, but at least hes still a beast with the Nets.

 

Re: Players who's careers have been ruined by management/owners

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Serge @ Jun 24 2006, 05:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You don't think AI should be traded to Minny then Minny won't have to trade KG?</div>Wait, you want Allen Iverson to go Minnesota?I see here you are coming from, but I don't think it would work. The team would still ahve too many holes on it, and we all know Allen Iverson wants the ball in his hands all the time. Maybe it would get them a low playoff seed, but what's the point? They'll still get eliminated in the first round within 6 games. Just trade KG

 

Re: Players who's careers have been ruined by management/owners

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KMart @ Jun 25 2006, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wait, you want Allen Iverson to go Minnesota?I see here you are coming from, but I don't think it would work. The team would still ahve too many holes on it, and we all know Allen Iverson wants the ball in his hands all the time. Maybe it would get them a low playoff seed, but what's the point? They'll still get eliminated in the first round within 6 games. Just trade KG</div>I think Iverson would be VERY willing to give up the rock to KG... hell, look how much he gave the ball up to Webber this year, and KG is easily better than Webber. The only problem with Minnesota trading for Iverson would be the other aspect you mentioned... the players around the AI/KG duo wouldn't form the type of supporting cast that team would need to be an elite squad.

 

Re: Players who's careers have been ruined by management/owners

I'm just wondering, why is Iverson still called a ballhog? If Dalembert could catch the ball and Iggy would start to get more agressive Iverson would easily be putting up 10 assists per game. Same goes to Kobe, no one on his team demands the ball and when he does pass they just give it back.

 

Re: Players who's careers have been ruined by management/owners

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Jun 26 2006, 01:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm just wondering, why is Iverson still called a ballhog? If Dalembert could catch the ball and Iggy would start to get more agressive Iverson would easily be putting up 10 assists per game. Same goes to Kobe, no one on his team demands the ball and when he does pass they just give it back.</div>Well... there are a few reasons in my mind why that label still applies to Iverson (and some of the reasons also apply to Kobe):1. People just rely on the media stereotypes about AI from a few years ago, instead of watching how he plays now.2. People don't understand the fact that the more AI shoots and the more he has the ball in his hands to create for his teammates, the better the Sixers' chances are of winning (also applies to Kobe). Of course the team has to find that happy middle-ground...3. They don't understand that it isn't ballhogging if the coach advocates the player having the ball that much, or if the system is predicated on the ball being in that player's hands (also applies to Kobe).4. People are just plain haters... (also applies to Kobe).There are probably more reasons, but I'm really tired and those are the only ones that come to mind at the moment.

 

Re: Players who's careers have been ruined by management/owners

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Jun 26 2006, 02:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm just wondering, why is Iverson still called a ballhog? If Dalembert could catch the ball and Iggy would start to get more agressive Iverson would easily be putting up 10 assists per game. Same goes to Kobe, no one on his team demands the ball and when he does pass they just give it back.</div>Stephon Marbury is normally able to average 8 assists a game. Is he considered unselfish?Again, it's not just the amount of shots you take, it's where and when you take them. Is Allen Iverson dribbling to the 20 foot line and shooting a leaner a bad shot? Yes. That is ball hogging.Is Kobe Bryant shooting a 20 footer over a double-team a bad shot? Yes, that's ball-hoggingIs Tracy McGrady dribbling up to the three point line and shooting ball-hogging? Yes!Most stars in the NBA average similar shot attempts, it's just where and when they take them. THere's a reason people call AI and Kobe selfish when they are shooting under 45%! 44% is absolutely pathetic on Kobe's part, and a big reason is because of his un-willingness to pass and his tendancy to shoot dumb shots. Allen Iverson shot 45% this year, and people were calling it his best year! Over his career, the man has struggled to shoot 40%!People called 03-04 a season where TMac was hogging it. Why? He averaged less shots than the year before!He shot 42%

 

Re: Players who's careers have been ruined by management/owners

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KMart @ Jun 26 2006, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Stephon Marbury is normally able to average 8 assists a game. Is he considered unselfish?Again, it's not just the amount of shots you take, it's where and when you take them. Is Allen Iverson dribbling to the 20 foot line and shooting a leaner a bad shot? Yes. That is ball hogging.</div>Stephon might be able to average 8 assists per game but not this year. The difference between Marbury and Iverson is look at that Knicks squad, they have to many shooters right? Well look at the Sixers, besides Korver they have no shooters. It's much easier to average more assists on an offensive loaded squad.Don't you remember at the end of the season when Lamar and Kwame started to demand the ball? They started scoring and started winning, it's not that these stars don't pass it's that there teamates don't shoot. If you really want to take a look at the similarities between Kobes, Iversons and Tracy's teams were that there respective teams had no offensive talent.

 

Re: Players who's careers have been ruined by management/owners

Come on. If you actually think Kwame was demanding the ball, I'll just sit here and laugh. You guys totally make things more complicated than they should be.Bottom lineassing = Production.And Stephon has always been able to average 8 APG. It's simply about being able to get to points and passing. It's has nothing to do with being unselfish

 

Re: Players who's careers have been ruined by management/owners

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KMart @ Jun 26 2006, 04:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Come on. If you actually think Kwame was demanding the ball, I'll just sit here and laugh. You guys totally make things more complicated than they should be.Bottom lineassing = Production.And Stephon has always been able to average 8 APG. It's simply about being able to get to points and passing. It's has nothing to do with being unselfish</div>Not neccesarily Kwame but the team as a whole started asking for shots from Kobe and they started winning. Not all the times are Kwame, Lamar and Smush gonna make shots and I think that comes from Kobe not trusting his teamates.

 

Re: Players who's careers have been ruined by management/owners

[quote name='KMart' post='98232' date='Jun 25 2006, 11:14 AM']Wait, you want Allen Iverson to go Minnesota?I see here you are coming from, but I don't think it would work. The team would still ahve too many holes on it, and we all know Allen Iverson wants the ball in his hands all the time. Maybe it would get them a low playoff seed, but what's the point? They'll still get eliminated in the first round within 6 games. Just trade KG[/quote]I want AI to retire a Sixer. But it looks like AI will be traded some were. So the Sixers could start to rebuild. So since he probably be traded anyway yes I would rather have AI go to Minny works good for both teams.I don't think AI, and KG = a low playoff seat. They can get as far as the Western Conference finals. Only teams really Minny might not beat are Spurs, and Dallas any other teams Minny should be able to beat for sure. And if they make another move after that then Minny could win a title. I think your way of on them being just a low playoff seat. And again AI does not mind passing if he has someone to pass to. And KG would not mind AI taking control.[quote name='BigMo763' post='98719' date='Jun 26 2006, 01:51 AM']I think Iverson would be VERY willing to give up the rock to KG... hell, look how much he gave the ball up to Webber this year, and KG is easily better than Webber. The only problem with Minnesota trading for Iverson would be the other aspect you mentioned... the players around the AI/KG duo wouldn't form the type of supporting cast that team would need to be an elite squad.[/quote]Exactly AI would not mind giving the rock to KG at all. Good point if he gave the ball to Webber who he saw miss so many of his little jump shots he would for sure pass to KG who is so much better. And with AI, and KG you would just need the other guys to be able to play D, and rebound and they would be a contender. And if they make another move after that no reason they would not win a title. And maybe some free agents would wanna come there for less money to play with AI, and KG for a chance at a title.[quote name='Heatfan32' post='98727' date='Jun 26 2006, 02:20 AM']I'm just wondering, why is Iverson still called a ballhog? If Dalembert could catch the ball and Iggy would start to get more agressive Iverson would easily be putting up 10 assists per game. Same goes to Kobe, no one on his team demands the ball and when he does pass they just give it back.[/quote]Your exactly right the point I was trying to make.[quote name='BigMo763' post='98731' date='Jun 26 2006, 04:29 AM']Well... there are a few reasons in my mind why that label still applies to Iverson (and some of the reasons also apply to Kobe):1. People just rely on the media stereotypes about AI from a few years ago, instead of watching how he plays now.2. People don't understand the fact that the more AI shoots and the more he has the ball in his hands to create for his teammates, the better the Sixers' chances are of winning (also applies to Kobe). Of course the team has to find that happy middle-ground...3. They don't understand that it isn't ballhogging if the coach advocates the player having the ball that much, or if the system is predicated on the ball being in that player's hands (also applies to Kobe).4. People are just plain haters... (also applies to Kobe).There are probably more reasons, but I'm really tired and those are the only ones that come to mind at the moment.[/quote]1. Exactly right people who actually go to games to see AI play now know that he is not a ball hog.2. Your right the more AI, and Kobe have the ball in there hands the better chance the team has to win.3. And again yep agree. I am sure if the coach tells them to shoot less they would if not the gm would tell them. But once they take less shots, and see the team lose then they are like I tryed your way we lost.4. I am still shocked how much people are hating on both Kobe, and AI espacially Kobe.[quote name='KMart' post='98914' date='Jun 26 2006, 03:54 PM']Stephon Marbury is normally able to average 8 assists a game. Is he considered unselfish?Again, it's not just the amount of shots you take, it's where and when you take them. Is Allen Iverson dribbling to the 20 foot line and shooting a leaner a bad shot? Yes. That is ball hogging.Is Kobe Bryant shooting a 20 footer over a double-team a bad shot? Yes, that's ball-hoggingIs Tracy McGrady dribbling up to the three point line and shooting ball-hogging? Yes!Most stars in the NBA average similar shot attempts, it's just where and when they take them. THere's a reason people call AI and Kobe selfish when they are shooting under 45%! 44% is absolutely pathetic on Kobe's part, and a big reason is because of his un-willingness to pass and his tendancy to shoot dumb shots. Allen Iverson shot 45% this year, and people were calling it his best year! Over his career, the man has struggled to shoot 40%!People called 03-04 a season where TMac was hogging it. Why? He averaged less shots than the year before!He shot 42%[/quote]Starbury okay can average 8 assits, but does he also average 33 ppg with those assists? And the answer is not even close.And dribbling up, and shooting sometimes is a good shot espacially with T-Mac, and Kobe who just raise over you, and shoot easy.And AI dribbling, and shooting a lot of times is better then him passing it to Iguodala who would just pass it back to him with less time on the clock. And better then passing the ball to Sammy were the ball would go thru Sammy's finger, and out of bounds. Also better then Webber taking his stupid jump shots.