The more I watch this team, the more I see Thibodeau as something of a mad genius and I'm not completely sure whether the accent should be on the "mad" or the "genius." Although how he's handled the shooting guard position has probably drawn the most criticism from fans, I'm beginning to wonder if it's not Thibs' signature "mad genius" maneuver. I mean how many NBA teams have ever employed Thibs' "shooting guard by committee" strategy? What other extremely successful NBA team has had 3 players at one position where you could make an argument that any of the 3 is #1? None that I can think of and I've been watching NBA basketball since the mid-60s. Keith Bogans is the starter (and just about every Bulls' fan hates this). The starter at a position is #1, right? Ronnie Brewer plays the most minutes of any Bulls shooting guard (22.8mpg vs Bogans' 17.5mpg). Back in the day when Ben Gordon came off the bench, but got the lion's share of the shooting guard minutes, we considered Gordon as our #1 shooting guard, didn't we? Kyle Korver plays 20.4mpg, but nearly 2/3 of those are at SF (as determined by who you are defending...when Korver and Brewer are in the game together, Thibs almost always has Korver defending the opposing SF to minimize the quickness mismatch). So Korver only plays about 7mpg at shooting guard. How can he be #1? By the age-old dictum that "it doesn't matter who starts the game, it matters who finishes." At the end of games, more often than not, it's Rose, Korver, Deng, Boozer and Noah (or Thomas when Noah was injured). Korver is the Bulls' shooting guard "closer." I've never heard anyone interview Thibodeau about his "3-headed monster" shooting guard madness so we can only speculate about what might be going on inside that semi-bald head of his. So let's speculate...I'll go first. We all know that Korver is both the best shooter and worst athlete of the 3, and it's not close on either score. Though Korver is a weak defender due to his athletic limitations, he plays defense with good energy. A tired Korver is a looming defensive disaster. If you want him to be something close to adequate on the defensive end, you can't use him as a starter and a finisher. In addition to this, the Bulls second unit absolutely must have Korver in there as an offensive threat when Deng comes out. Brewer is an absolute defensive force of nature. However, he's a poor choice to start games since he does his best work along the baseline, a place he can't hang out with the starting unit because the shooting guard needs to be the defensive safety. Also, Brewer's by far the weakest 3-point shooter of the three Bulls shooting guards and that's pretty much all the starting unit needs from the position. Bogans is a solid and physical defender and a competent 3-point shooter. If this doesn't sound like high praise, it's not meant to be. Bogans isn't a lockdown defender, but he makes opposing shooting guards work hard for their offense. On offense, he has 2 jobs - hit open 3-pointers and play defensive safety so DRose can feel free to penetrate. That's it...and he does at least OK on both counts. In the offseason, the Bulls may try to acquire a shooting guard who can effectively play Bogans' 16-18 starting minutes, Korver's 7 finishing minutes and 8 or so of the combined minutes of Korver/Brewer in the middle. Until then, Thibodeau will need to continue to play the creative genius/madman.
^^A noble effort, but Wil and Luc never played together. Also, center is different than shooting guard. Still, much like Phil often had to do with the center position, Thibs has had to make do with the SG position...if you don't give me a legit starter, I'll mix and match. In my opinion, both have done it with aplomb.
If Bogans is so good, how come he's not finishing games? Seems like it's Korver finishing games, and we pull away (like yesterday) in Q4. The next logical question is that if we pull away in Q4 (mostly) with Korver out there, wouldn't it be pretty good to pull away in Q1 from the start of games, too? There have probably been a lot of teams that played a 3 SG rotation, and in all cases I can think of, at least one is SG/SF (like Korver AND Brewer). When Gordon was coming off the bench, there were quite a few of us who saw in the advanced statistics that the Bulls were a better team with him starting.
Reading is a skill. The exact question you asked is a matter of speculation, but my OP speculated this As I said in the OP, I haven't seen/read where Thibs has answered this obvious question, hence the speculation. If you know of any source where Thibs explained the strategy, please provide. If you have a more insightful rationale for what Thibs has done, please provide. If you think Thibs is just stupid on this particular decision, please say do, but in doing this, please address the speculative rationale in the OP. Thanks.
I'll speculate. Korver missed 30 games last season, and Brewer missed 22. If Brewer were truly healthy at the start of the season (he wasn't), he'd have been the starter all along. He didn't really come around for months into the season, and the Bulls were exceeding expectations even with Bogans starting. My response to the "tired Korver" angle is that a 30+ MPG Korver shot over .400 from 3pt on 4 to 8 attempts a game (depends on the season), knocked down his free throws, and turned the ball over once every three games. The guy's an athlete, and only 29 years old. Boo hoo for him if he needs to run enough laps to get into shape to play more minutes, ya know?
The guy you were looking for instead of Will Perdue was Gilligan Dele otherwise known as Brian "Bison" Williams
I don't see us "upgrading" the SG with the big swinging dick "name" buy. I do see us adding Shane Battier to the team in the summer and failing that Kelenna Azubuike and failing that it will be business as usual with our 3 headed monster with Razz Butler in the background tickling the skins Of equal importance IMO will be to identify and secure the right type of bigman to take Kurt Thomas's spot And I've been calling this one for a couple of seasons now but Nick Collison is that type of guy that fits this team and the management culture behind it like a hand in glove. I know he re-upped with the Thunder and they love each other ...BUT with Perkins and Ibaka and a developers in Cole Aldrich and BJ Mullens ...he plays that 3rd to 4th big in the rotation there to smooth out the bumps which is what we've used Kurt Thomas for here I don't think the Thunder would let him go but he's the ideal fit for what we need in that AD/PJ/KT lineage of role
Oh that's right. Good memory, FJ. All the years seem to blur together for me, which is sad. That's the first time I saw the phrase "three-headed monster" in regard to a starting position in basketball.
The Jordan-era bulls did this consistantly as SST points out. Besides the four guys mentioned, Cartwright, Stacey King and Scott Williams (and Rodman) were in the mix too.
Seems that Korver's the answer in your opinion, yet Thibodeau isn't on board with you. The questions then become Is Korver not in condition to effectively play 35+ minutes on the defensive end and you're not in a position to know this or It's purely a Thibodeau "blind spot." Thoughts?
It was rather unique back then to play C by committee as the Bulls did. However, these days, few teams have a full time C who plays 36 minutes of near 82 games.
I gave my speculation. Bogans early in the season for lack of anyone healthy enough to play, and don't change horses in the middle of the stream after that. And I didn't say Korver's the answer, it just seems weird to have a guy finish games and not start them. An interesting factoid from last night's game, a big win. Our starters scored 56 points, but 3 of them: Bogans, Thomas, and Noah combined for just 4 points between them. We trailed 50-48 at halftime.
I wouldn't necessarily call Sicky Dims and Cellblock Caffey as part of anything monstrous. Cellblock played a more , genuine ( if limited ) role but Sicky Dim Sims ?...please. In my recollection / analysis .....Longley started because of his size and his ability to bang in half court defense and was a very gifted passer - both from the high post and in the interior. He could also stick it in a 15ft to 18ft range - but had no post game which we didn't need from anyway. Dele was a more natural and agressive scorer who had some success in his role in tag teaming with Luc and Bill Wennington was more a jump shooting offense driven big who would make the right plays on offense and was a good 3rd Center big given how the team was built around Jordan and Pippen Don't forget that Toni played a lot of minutes on the forward line behind Rodman and Pippen with Cellblock and Jughead Buecheler playing the support minutes at the 4 and 3 respectively Simpkins was more in the Haley category for mine ( break glass in case of emergency )
hmmm. I was under the impression that Brewer was brought in to be our starter. He was hurt in training camp and not 100% to start the season. I have always thought Bogans started by necessity. And now, 'it ain't broke why fix it' saying comes to mind. I never thought Korver would start. We need his offense for the second team and at the end of games. I think of Kyle as a SF anyway. Nice thread transplant!
I never get tired of looking at that photo of Thibodeau at his press conference! Tranny Great op. You could understand how the three - headed monster at C could work, because we didn't really need anything from them, except fouls and the occasional post play at the start of the game before MJ got warmed up. But in this team's case, somehow the 2g's are being mixed and matched in a strange brew (should post in the lifeblood thread) that is actually kind of important to the Bulls' success. I agree that it IS unique. No denying that there is some hysteresis going on (memory preserving) that explains Bogans' starting, but I don't think you get Thibo to stick with Bogans because of sentimentality or superstition. I mean, the guy started KT after nearly two weeks of not playing at all, and it was a great move. He LIKES what Bogans does, and that's why he sticks with him in the starting line-up, and it's why Transplants' post is spot on (sorry, I really hate that internet fashion of speech, but, when the shoe fits...)
