Jason Kidd...he's played a lot more minutes than Nash when they are the same age so he's breaking down a little compared to Nash being his best now. Kidd's just better, much more consistant, lights years better on defense.
This is a tough one, but I'm going with Jason Kidd. He can do nearly anything Nash can do, yet he is the better defender. Mr. Triple Double takes my vote.
LOL once gaain im not sure on the topic??? Is this who has had the better career or who is better now. I would definetly say Jkidd has easily had the better career but if tis whos better now thats definetly harder to decide.
We had this topic like 2 months ago....and guess what? Vote hasn't changed! JKidd....better passer, better rebounder, far better defender, better winner and leader.
If i was making a team two years ago not knowing what i know today, i would have picked Jason Kidd. Now days if was forced to choose, i would take Steve Nash over Jason Kidd. Sure Jason Kidd is the better rebounder and defensive player, but for a point guard i want the better offensive player to set the tone for my team. That better offensive player of the two is Steve Nash, he's just as good of a passer, 100 percent better shooter, and can break down defenses better. Nitro said that he is a better winner and leader than Jason Kidd, and that might have been true three years ago, but this day and age Steve Nash seems the be the better leader and winner. Nash's team won 54 games compared to Jason Kidd's team winning 49, and Nash's team went to his conference finals and Kidd's team didn't. So like i said, if i was picking these days, i'm taking Steve Nash over Jason Kidd. If i picked two or three years ago, i am taking Jason Kidd over Steve Nash.
If it was now then I would say Nash.But over all Kidd he is Mr. Triple double lolHe also plays D unlike Nash
i have a biased opinion cos i like the suns, and ive never liked kidd since the dallas days and all the sh*t that went down with jim jackson, never thought he was a team player, arrogant etc. nash is an honest player whos in it for the team, and though kidd is statistically better during his career and a better defender, nash in his prime has 2 mvp trophies and is clearly the better passer and scorer. lately kidd seems to get contained and everything falls apart, if nash's shot aint fallin hes passin and vice versa hes not fazed easily nor consistently. the mavs played better with nash than kidd and so do the suns (pathetic argument). nash is more of a franchise player, marginally, how many people want to play for the suns? everyone? i think the best most emphatic reason for nash, is that hes canadian
Jason Kidd is another one of those players whose better on paper, but still no where near the player in terms of valuability. Id take Steve Nash any day, not only can he run a team and bring leadership, he actually shows up in big games unlike Kidd. This reminds me of a poor mans comparison of Magic and Gary Payton.
PrimeTime............Nash any day? Not if it's the old Jason Kidd. I mean come on Kidd is a triple double machine. And plays D unlike Nash the guy is awful at D.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Serge @ Jun 30 2006, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>PrimeTime............Nash any day? Not if it's the old Jason Kidd. I mean come on Kidd is a triple double machine. And plays D unlike Nash the guy is awful at D.</div>Nash isnt as bad as D as Kidd is on offense. Also Nash lets the game come to him, thats why players around him vastly improve. Jason Kidd forces it, and takes a lot of very bad shots. Nash also wins, no matter who is around him of late. Late Prime or not id take him. Jason Kidd is a stat filler, but i dont see anyone picking KG over Duncan.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 30 2006, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nash isnt as bad as D as Kidd is on offense. Also Nash lets the game come to him, thats why players around him vastly improve. Jason Kidd forces it, and takes a lot of very bad shots. Nash also wins, no matter who is around him of late. Late Prime or not id take him. Jason Kidd is a stat filler, but i dont see anyone picking KG over Duncan.</div>And yea Nash is as bad on D. And about people not picking KG over Duncan............ They are both great, but Duncan winning titles I am sure had something to do with that. lol
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 30 2006, 05:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jason Kidd is another one of those players whose better on paper, but still no where near the player in terms of valuability. Id take Steve Nash any day, not only can he run a team and bring leadership, he actually shows up in big games unlike Kidd. This reminds me of a poor mans comparison of Magic and Gary Payton.</div>Kidd led NJ to 2 finals appearences and pushed champion Pistons to 7 games. BOTH players show up in big games, but Kidd has been better winner and can run a team and make everyone better no matter the offense (he did it with Martin and those players on a fast break team like Nash is doing now, but he also has done it with Nets of this year in a much more slowed down style). Kidd isn't as gifted scoring the ball as Nash (partly because Nash plays in a much faster paced game which opens up floor for him to get easy layups) but Kidd is IMO the better and smarter passer, can run an offense better, is better rebounder and defender, and also better winner. And don't compare this to Magic/Gary or KG/Duncan. If anything, Kidd is the Duncan and Magic. Kidd can rebound and be a winner like Magic, while only comparison for Nash is that he can score more. KG only made it to WCF once, while Duncan has 3 rings. Kidd has been to Finals twice, and Nash has only been to WCF.Lastly, Nash is just as much of a stat filler as Kidd, if not more. His impact isn't nearly as big as his stats suggest. Put in any any decent PG that can run a fast break and use speed to his advantage and you will get same thing as with Nash. Nash has only played for Nellie and D'Antoni, let's see him play a slowed down style with one on one offensive players like VC and RJ isntead of players like Marion and Amare who THRIVE off his passing.
I say Nash. He has the ability to make his teammates better and run an offense better than Kidd, who had Carter and Jefferson, and Krstic to work with, but still struggled at times. Nash is the bettter attacker, scorer and shooter. Kidd is the better rebounder and defensive player, but I'd much rather have a better offensive pg than a better defensive pg. PGs are the most important position in most teams' offenses.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jul 2 2006, 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I say Nash. He has the ability to make his teammates better and run an offense better than Kidd, who had Carter and Jefferson, and Krstic to work with, but still struggled at times. Nash is the bettter attacker, scorer and shooter. Kidd is the better rebounder and defensive player, but I'd much rather have a better offensive pg than a better defensive pg. PGs are the most important position in most teams' offenses.</div>Kidd had Martin, jefferson, and Kittles a few years back and led them to 2 Finals appearences. Kidd struggled this year due to nets not having a big man to defer to and a slow team that doesn't run the break. The ONLY reason the Suns are a good team is because of D'Antoni's fastbreak offense which showcases Nash's ability.And Kidd has the ability to stop a premier PG so they can't be most important part of offense. What happenned when Kidd played nash? Nash had 0 points on 0-6 FG. He held Billups to under 10 points the night before. Defense wins championships. And get your facts straight, every single knowledgable NBA fan/analyst will tell you Kidd is the better player, and is just as good at making teammates better. He showed that with Nets of a few years back with a team very similar to Nash's Suns. Same general offense and everything.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jul 2 2006, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Lastly, Nash is just as much of a stat filler as Kidd, if not more. His impact isn't nearly as big as his stats suggest. Put in any any decent PG that can run a fast break and use speed to his advantage and you will get same thing as with Nash. Nash has only played for Nellie and D'Antoni, let's see him play a slowed down style with one on one offensive players like VC and RJ isntead of players like Marion and Amare who THRIVE off his passing.</div>This is where your wrong, you can't just put any point guard into that spot and get what you are getting out of the Suns. They might put up stats near what Nash is putting up, but no other point guard in that league will get you the same results out of Phoenix that Nash is getting. People on this board think that just because this is a fast paced team, that is the only thing this team can do, is run fast breaks and that is quite wrong. This team is very good in the half court, and most of that is because of Steve Nash's abilities. No other point guard in the league has the perfect blend of court vision and shooting to fit into this offense like Steve Nash does. I have said all along this offense would not be even half as good if anyone else in the league was to run it, as it is with Steve Nash running the offense.
Honestly, there isn't another person who could do as good of a job as Nash is. The offense wouldn't flow as good and i don't have time to explain why, i will later.Well after watching the suns and after debating with arizona for a while, it did make sense. As we know Jason kidd is a horrible shooter. Defenses can loosly guard kidd because he's not a good shooters whilst doing that with nash is suicide. The defenses will have much more problems stopping an offense led by nash then one led by Kidd. Nash on offense is a beast, he's shooting amazing [minus the playoffs]. You decide to go under a screen whilst guarding him then your finished. He'll hit the 3 on your ass and i saw this happen many a time against my team, espeically in game 4 when sasha went under a screen and got owned by nash. If you decide to stick and not give nash the shot, he'll burn you with the penetration. Nitro, i value defense and i take Kidd but i kid you not, Kidd would not be able to do the job Nash is doing. I'm not say he's do horribly but surely not as good as nash is. The only person i can think off who could perfectly blend the shooting and play making ability is John stockton.edit: Btw, i still hate nash. My opinion hasn't changed.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jul 3 2006, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kidd had Martin, jefferson, and Kittles a few years back and led them to 2 Finals appearences. Kidd struggled this year due to nets not having a big man to defer to and a slow team that doesn't run the break. The ONLY reason the Suns are a good team is because of D'Antoni's fastbreak offense which showcases Nash's ability.And Kidd has the ability to stop a premier PG so they can't be most important part of offense. What happenned when Kidd played nash? Nash had 0 points on 0-6 FG. He held Billups to under 10 points the night before. Defense wins championships. And get your facts straight, every single knowledgable NBA fan/analyst will tell you Kidd is the better player, and is just as good at making teammates better. He showed that with Nets of a few years back with a team very similar to Nash's Suns. Same general offense and everything.</div>OK, I dont give a sh*t what they did in the past. That's great, but we're comparing the better player in terms of skills right now, not 3 or 4 years ago. Struggled? I've seen the Nets run, and they are fine without a big man. Suns had Shawn Marion, but no other real fastbreak inside target. RJ and Carrter are both very fit for fast break dunks and alley oops, and combined they get way more than the Suns. Stop complaining. Don't you think more teams would run if it were as simple as that? Nash is the one making the Suns a good team, because he is the anchor of the offense, the one running it, and the one making it the best in the League.Kidd is the better defender. We've already established that. Nash is better on offense currently..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Jul 5 2006, 06:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This is where your wrong, you can't just put any point guard into that spot and get what you are getting out of the Suns. They might put up stats near what Nash is putting up, but no other point guard in that league will get you the same results out of Phoenix that Nash is getting. People on this board think that just because this is a fast paced team, that is the only thing this team can do, is run fast breaks and that is quite wrong. This team is very good in the half court, and most of that is because of Steve Nash's abilities. No other point guard in the league has the perfect blend of court vision and shooting to fit into this offense like Steve Nash does. I have said all along this offense would not be even half as good if anyone else in the league was to run it, as it is with Steve Nash running the offense.</div>The offense with Barbosa running it was more than 75% as good as Nash running it. It all comes down to the coaching. You bet your ass that if Larry Brown was coaching that team and they jacked up as many shots as they do, they'd all be benched, as would Nash for not playing D. I feel Chris Paul would do just as good with that offense, and Kidd would do very well as well (because Kidd isn't much of a scoring threat, his driving wouldn't be as impactful). And if you put Nash into the Nets current offense, he wouldn't do better than Kidd. It goes both ways.CB4- You can't compare Kidd now as much because most of their offense runs through iso's for VC and RJ in the halfcourt. Since Nets don't have a great shooter or big man, the defense collapses on him when he drives. Suns are ALL shooters, and you can't really do much int erms of collapsing as they all knock down 3's. Nets don't have the agility or speed that the Suns do. VC rarely runs the break anymore, and RJ isn't as fast as a Raja Bell or Shawn Marion. After that, they don't have any agility. When the Nets had that speed and agility a few years back, Kidd brought them to the NBA finals twice (and no superstars like Nash has had with Marion and Amare last year).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jul 5 2006, 11:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The offense with Barbosa running it was more than 75% as good as Nash running it. It all comes down to the coaching. You bet your ass that if Larry Brown was coaching that team and they jacked up as many shots as they do, they'd all be benched, as would Nash for not playing D. I feel Chris Paul would do just as good with that offense, and Kidd would do very well as well (because Kidd isn't much of a scoring threat, his driving wouldn't be as impactful). And if you put Nash into the Nets current offense, he wouldn't do better than Kidd. It goes both ways.CB4- You can't compare Kidd now as much because most of their offense runs through iso's for VC and RJ in the halfcourt. Since Nets don't have a great shooter or big man, the defense collapses on him when he drives. Suns are ALL shooters, and you can't really do much int erms of collapsing as they all knock down 3's. Nets don't have the agility or speed that the Suns do. VC rarely runs the break anymore, and RJ isn't as fast as a Raja Bell or Shawn Marion. After that, they don't have any agility. When the Nets had that speed and agility a few years back, Kidd brought them to the NBA finals twice (and no superstars like Nash has had with Marion and Amare last year).</div>Hmm? They can still run with out a big man. He has two freakishly athletic players to work with here, and 1 superstar, and one borderline all star. Vince C, and RJ are both quick and more athletic then anyone on the Suns besides Shawn Marion last year. Raja Bell doesnt score inside points on the break though. No one else besides Shawn really runs the break on the Suns to tell you the truth. The rest set up behind the 3 point line, except Boris; who excells in iso situations. We're not talking about the past, we're talking about the better player now..
