Should we be worried? (Re: Radiation fallout)

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Fez Hammersticks, Mar 15, 2011.

  1. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    I'm not trying to be flip....other than taking iodine pills (which stop the body from ingesting radioactive iodine by saturating your thyroid with all the "good" iodine it needs)...what mitigating defense measures would you like, and what casualties do you expect? Even the people in Japan, within miles of the stuff melting down, aren't getting sick. Why are you worried so much about this, when you're thousands of miles away and it will take days to get whatever is leaked over the US?

    Time, distance and shielding are all mitigators of dose. Time and distance are inversely exponential, which means that if you stand 2x as far away as person X, you'll get 1/4 of his dose. If it takes a half-life of the source to get from him to you, then the dose is cut in half by the time it gets to you. In this case, you're 500x farther away from these sources of radiation than the people in the evacuation zone, and they aren't getting sick short-term or long-term. I guess I'm trying to understand what your concerns are, b/c to someone who has put a lot of time and energy into understand and working with nuclear power and nuclear weapons, this is a bit like your kids being scared of the boogieman under the bed. I'm not trying to minimize your fears, but to educate you that this is not what you're making it. And it's not your fault, b/c people are selling papers and getting blog hits and TV ratings from making this sound like the second step of the apocalypse. When not a single person has been even as sick as a chemo patient from all of this,

    One puff on your cigar will likely give you more of a dose than you'll receive in your entire life from all of the radiation leaked from the Japanese nuclear plants--the "2nd or 3rd worst" nuclear disaster in history.
     
  2. Masbee

    Masbee -- Rookie of the Year

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    And decades of research proving a strong link between obsesity generally, and consumption of junk food (lack of produce, excess processed fats and grains) and development of cancer (as well as heart disease, diabetes, and more) turns out (according to you) to have been a massive conspiracy to decieve created by the all powerful Nuclear Industry.

    I mean, just look at the Nuclear Industry. How powerful. How many new plants have been built. They are an unstoppable force that is steamrolling all democracy and will crush and poison all before it.

    Thank you for showing me the light. I can't believe I was duped by listening to SO MANY so-call experts. MARIS knows all.
     
  3. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    So much dis-information here it's futile to try to bring you up to date. Rather than continuing to defend a dead horse, try getting yourself up to date on what has transpired. You could also do some research into the actual dangers of nuclear power, since you seem to only know the standard BS diversions and fairy tales the industry provides.
     
  4. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    I don't expect the government to save us from exposure. Obviously that's impossible. This is not deliberate endangerment like the US tests of the 50's and 60's, which exposed our entire 160 million citizens to radiation over and over for years.

    But they could be honest with us, which they are not. They could admit Americans in the future will probably die from cancers due to the contamination which will fall on our land and be consumed by livestock and then by people through their food.

    They could provide accurate information instead of parroting the industry nonsense wrongly stating that getting the equivalent of a year's dose of radiation in one hour is no more harmful than getting it spread out over a year. Try applying that logic next time you cook dinner or get a suntan.

    Maybe you need to look under your bed for the boogeyman, because he's real in this instance, and he's your boss. It's clear this government serves the military industrial compex, and nobody else.
     
  5. Eastoff

    Eastoff But it was a beginning.

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    Military industrial complex = japanese power plants?:crazy:
     
  6. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    Well, I tried. How dare the government parrot results of a half-century of close monitoring and industry and watchdog regulation and a century of nuclear physics research, while social workers and realtors who REALLY KNOW what's going on stand by idly waiting for them to set up radiation triage centers for those they're sure are about to die of large-scale radiological poisoning?

    In a related note, 45 million Americans are still ingesting government-warned and industry-regulated doses of alpha particles straight into their lungs through cigarettes, which have ACTUAL documented effects of cancer and radiation sickness and death. Unlike, say, death clouds from the Orient. But let's forget all that and set up long-term radiation triage centers.

    I wish it was as easy for me to be cavalierly ignorant of the important things in life (like, say, facts) and as exciting when I uncover the newest worldwide threat to human existence that no one except me knows about.
     
  7. Masbee

    Masbee -- Rookie of the Year

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    You know what's comical; leading edge research into mind-body process is proving that individuals can really be "scared to death" and that emotions play an important part in much illness.

    So, while nutjob conspiracy spewers, and politically motivated scaremongers, may think they are "saving the world", it is not so far fetched to make the claim that they are the true danger; they are the ones causing real harm, real damage, real illness and death.

    Good for them if that was their goal.
     
  8. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Not sure why this paragraph was addressed to me, but I'll respond anyway. For the record, I'm not particularly worried about this. I might be if I lived in Fukushima, but I don't.

    I'm not sure what we can say about the quality of the work being done over there. There have been reports that blamed worker screwups for a couple of the problems. And anyway I don't think TEPCO or the Japanese government have a very good track record of telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Eventually we'll probably learn the whole story. And it might be worse than is currently being described. Or maybe it won't be. Maybe things will get better from here, maybe they'll get worse.

    I guess I'll wait to see what happens next before deciding whether (a) we are all going to die a slow and painful death, or (b) nukes are warm and toasty and I want one in my pants.

    barfo
     
  9. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    Here's a current example of how decisions are made to determine what is "safe" exposure:

    Workers struggled on Tuesday and Wednesday to keep hundreds of gallons of seawater a minute flowing through temporary fire pumps into the three stricken reactors, Nos. 1, 2 and 3. Among the many problems that officials acknowledged on Wednesday was what appeared to be yet another fire at the plant and indications that the containment vessel surrounding a reactor may have ruptured. That reactor, No. 3, appeared to be releasing radioactive steam.

    The workers are being asked to make escalating — and perhaps existential — sacrifices that so far are being only implicitly acknowledged: Japan’s Health Ministry said Tuesday that it was raising the legal limit on the amount of radiation exposure to which each worker could be exposed, to 250 millisieverts from 100 millisieverts, five times the maximum exposure permitted for nuclear plant workers in the United States.

    The change means that workers can now remain on site longer, the ministry said. “It would be unthinkable to raise it further than that, considering the health of the workers,” the health minister, Yoko Komiyama, said at a news conference.


    They just measure the exposure and set a limit that is higher. They literally just make this garbage up as they go along.

    Tokyo Electric Power, the plant’s operator, has said almost nothing at all about the workers, including how long a worker is expected to endure exposure.

    The few details Tokyo Electric has made available paint a dire picture. Five workers have died since the earthquake and 22 more have been injured for various reasons, while two are missing. One worker was hospitalized after suddenly grasping his chest and finding himself unable to stand, and another needed treatment after receiving a blast of radiation near a damaged reactor. Eleven workers were injured in a hydrogen explosion at reactor No. 3.


    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42101198/42086059
     
  10. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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  11. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    That explains all the dead birds and pets.

    I've wrapped myself in saran wrap and duct tape, I should be fine.

    barfo
     
  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Has there even been a single death due to radiation in Japan due to these reactors? The posts MARIS has been making say that death from the massive radiation he imagines happens within hours or days. What's it been, a week?

    The real threat to life there seems to be the massive destruction from 9.0 earthquakes and 30 ft. tsunamis. The body count (and sicknesses) from that sequence of events are staggering.

    Isn't it odd that radiation is blamed for cancer, yet radiation therapy is used to kill it?
     
  13. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I found some of this to actually be funny.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/18/uk-nuclear-usa-westcoast-idUSLNE72H01U20110318

    Low concentrations of radioactive particles from Japan's stricken nuclear plants are expected to drift over the Pacific Ocean but nothing has been detected as of late Thursday by U.S. or Canadian monitoring stations, officials said.

    (For MARIS, who says the govt. isn't telling us anything)

    "We do not expect harmful levels of radiation to reach the United States, whether it is the West Coast, Hawaii, Alaska or U.S. territories in the Pacific," Obama said in a televised statement. "That is the judgment of our Nuclear Regulatory Commission and many other experts."

    (And this is funny)
    At least five merchants on Amazon.com were selling packages of potassium iodide tablets for between $300 and $400, far above the usual list price of $10. Two big online sellers said on their websites they were sold out.
     
  14. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    Now that was a deep thought. You're right, radiation is good for us.

    Reagan said, always think of the silver lining. Think of the Japanese who got their cancerous cells killed by all the radiation in the air. Maybe you should patent this new medical technology.

    Most experts interviewed on the news networks worry about the same things as Maris.
     
  15. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Because they're selling out $10 iodine pills for $400.
     
  16. Fender

    Fender Member

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    LOL
     
  17. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    Japan has now raised the threat level to 5.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp=42147307&#42146973

    Down to their last hope of preventing world-wide destruction on a scale never before known.

    They will try to bury it.

    Japanese citizens are now certain their government is lying to them and they are attempting to flee the country.
     
  18. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

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    There are currently 100 workers at the plant who are performing what everyone admits is a suicide mission. They are expected to die for their futile efforts. To prevdent lawsuits and incriminations, the government has arbitrarily raised the supposed "safe" level of exposure 500%.

    The bigger danger is the widespread fallout polluting the entire Earth and the millions of deaths in the upcomming decades.
     
  19. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    They said on the news this morning that the radiation levels at the nuke plants is 1/3000th what it was at Chernobyl. I wouldn't park myself there for an extended time, but it sure sounds like people are way overflowing this.

    Brian has accurately presented the science. The intensity reduces by the square of the distance.
     
  20. Masbee

    Masbee -- Rookie of the Year

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    Yeah, well, there has long been thought to be a slightly positive effect of low dose radiation exposure.

    Low dose = healthful for many
    Moderate dose = harmful for many
    High dose = harmful for most

    Is that so hard to comprehend?

    In health, medicine vs. poision is in the dose.

    Why can't we see noticebly increased cancers in very high elevation towns? Or towns with extra high levels of radon? Or among pilots?
     

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