So if the Chairman thinks we are good for 4 ' chips with Derrick....

Discussion in 'Chicago Bulls' started by FatJerry, Apr 25, 2011.

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  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Denny Crane, Apr 27, 2011
    #41
  2. FatJerry

    FatJerry Member

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    Totally agree with you ~ as presently constituted and across all fronts

    Their ability to trade Lopez and a likely lottery pick next year to land Dwight Howard may change my opinion.

    New Jersey could be a very logical destination for Howard if he does leave Orlando.

    The Lakers can offer Bynum and poop fill. Lopez and a lottery pick is better for the Magic.

    Adidas wins either way. Superman is either in Brooklyn or in Los Angeles.
     
    FatJerry, Apr 27, 2011
    #42
  3. JayJohnstone

    JayJohnstone Active Member

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    You were the one that said the Bulls on 2 year contracts.

    Do you really want to extend the analysis?

    Quinton Ross rocked a 3.7 PER.
    Steven Graham rocked a 4.4 PER.
     
    JayJohnstone, Apr 27, 2011
    #43
  4. JayJohnstone

    JayJohnstone Active Member

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    OK - I'll agree to start to worry about Nets when they have Williams and Howard.
     
    JayJohnstone, Apr 27, 2011
    #44
  5. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    How about a plan where the Bulls get Howard.
     
    Denny Crane, Apr 27, 2011
    #45
  6. FatJerry

    FatJerry Member

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    I wish.

    Don't think we've got the horses

    Only thing we could do is offer Joakim and Boozer and take back Howard and Redick

    Howard plays the 4 here with Omer at 5 and Taj backing up as 3rd big

    No way this happens though
     
    FatJerry, Apr 28, 2011
    #46
  7. JayJohnstone

    JayJohnstone Active Member

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    Noah, Taj, Deng and Omer and the Charlotte 1st and one of our 1sts for Howard and Turkolou.

    Instant rebuild for Magic.
     
    JayJohnstone, Apr 28, 2011
    #47
  8. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Since we're in the middle of this playoff thing, it's the wrong time to be talking about this, but we've got a few off days so what the hell.

    The main assumption on Howard is that he'll openly want out of Orlando. If so, Howard becomes next season's Melo.

    If Orlando is convinced they can't re-sign Howard, while they could theoretically trade him anywhere, in practical terms the pool of potential trading partners will be determined by Howard. Howard will want teams that, with him, figure to be elite. The Bulls would pass this test.

    So what would the Magic want? For starters, you'd have to guess that a good young center would be on their wish list. The Bulls would pass this test and Noah's U of F history wouldn't hurt either. You'd have to guess that the Magic would love to get out from under the Arenas and Turkoglu contracts, but that could be tough and Howard may even object depending on the specifics. Beyond that, if the Magic wants expirings, the Bulls have some. If they want draft picks, they have some. If they want premium lottery picks, they don't.

    Doubtful, but since the Bulls pass the two most important tests (Howard-approved destination and good young center to trade) I can't dismiss it out of hand.
     
    transplant, Apr 28, 2011
    #48
  9. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Noah is BYC next year, but if the contracts involved are large enough, it would work.

    On one hand, Howard is strong, young, DPOY caliber at C, and basically the C version of Rose. On the other hand, he makes 1.5x what Noah does (and is 1.5x or more the player), so I have my doubts JR would even consider it. Sadly.
     
    Denny Crane, Apr 28, 2011
    #49
  10. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Don't be sad, Denny. If it helps any, I think you're wrong.
     
    transplant, Apr 28, 2011
    #50
  11. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    Sorry, but I can't see Jackson being good fit and doing any of the things you think he could. Any guy they bring in at the 2 has to first and foremost defer to Rose. Not sure Jackson can do that. Second, he has to be a lock down defender on the court. Again, don't see Jackson doing that any better than Bogans. Third, it'd be nice if he didn't blow up the cap flexibility to be able to get an actual decent 2 that can be a long term fit. Jackson is already 33 and makes $9 mil next and $10 mil the year after. This isn't the '95 Rockets team making one last run. This is a team whose window shouldn't even really have opened yet. You don't want to fuck it up early with a dumb move like adding Stephen Jackson.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2011
    bullshooter, Apr 28, 2011
    #51
  12. bullshooter

    bullshooter Active Member

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    Orlando didn't take a risk as much as they bailed out and tried to start over. They were going nowhere and to not try something would have been worse than the "risk" they took. And the C's didn't get better from that trade. They knew they weren't going to be able to resign Perkins, so they got what they could for him. And they knicks were dumb to make that trade when they did. They had no shot to win anything meaningful and were almost guaranteed to sign Melo in the offseason. Giving up the few assets they had was a panic move.

    So spare me the cheap shots at the front office. It'd be different if you sung their praises when they put together a team that did something like win the most regular games and secure the overall #1 seed, but you don't. So the constant hate is both wrong and annoying.
     
    bullshooter, Apr 28, 2011
    #52
  13. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I'd love to be proven wrong, but the last 13 years of history justifies my belief. Having Rose changes things, maybe, but it remains to be seen.
     
    Denny Crane, Apr 28, 2011
    #53
  14. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the original premise of the thread....

    FJ...I see where you're coming from, but I think you're being a tad dismissive of this team and a tad too assumptive of our competitors.

    When I read your post I was reminded of a thread I read on another board. It was bumped from three years ago, and it was a poll that asked if you'd rather be a fan of the Blazers or the Celtics. It was coming right off the Celts' championship season, and right after the Blazers drafted Greg Oden. Most people said they'd rather be a fan of the Blazers. When the thread was bumped Oden had suffered yet another season ending injury and Brandon Roy had been diagnosed with old man's knees.

    The thread was littered with 6 pages of proclamations about how the Blazers were going to be unstoppable and a sure-fire dynasty, and that was better than rooting for the aging Celtics, even if they were sure-fire contenders right now.

    Moral of the story: When it comes to winning teams, a bird in the hand is almost always worth two in the bush. And this comparison was made with a team that already had the players on its team, not just Cap Space and a new arena.

    And, this team has the benefit of a 22 year old MVP, and a core that's under contract for the next 3 years, and it's already had the best record in the league.

    And if that's not enough, our best record included:

    1). The best defense in the league
    2). The best point differential in the league
    3). One of the best records against top 5 teams in the league.

    Neither the Heat, and certainly not the Knicks or the Nets (!) can lay claim to that kind of success. The latter two aren't even close.

    I understand you're being forward-looking and not backwards looking. Cool. I just think you over-estimate the option values available to those teams.

    We'll find out soon enough who's right. We ought to re-visit this thread when we get bounced from the playoffs.
     
    rosenthall, Apr 28, 2011
    #54
  15. FatJerry

    FatJerry Member

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    All good and fair points rosey
     
    FatJerry, Apr 29, 2011
    #55
  16. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Bump.

    Genius. True genius.
     
    Denny Crane, Jun 2, 2011
    #56
  17. FatJerry

    FatJerry Member

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    The genius would be dealing Korver, Bogans ( after his option is picked up ) and a 1st round draft pick for Stephen Jackson . It carries a salary differential of around 1m

    The 2nd part of the genius would be dealing Watson and our other 1st round pick + our Charlotte pick for OJ Mayo

    Noah
    Boozer
    Deng
    Jackson
    Rose

    6th : Mayo

    Asik
    Gibson
    Brewer

    Wheel out Kurt Thomas again and a vet point in the Anthony Carter mould

    The payroll addition to this team from what we lose is approx 2.5m a year

    CBA be damned. If we can't invest this further spend to improve immeasurably then things are pretty crook.

    And I'm no genius so GarPax will have to assume that mantle.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2011
    FatJerry, Jun 7, 2011
    #57
  18. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    You did call it. A 2nd round or ECF team at best. As constituted.

    I love both moves you suggest. The team needs more balance, and both Jackson and Mayo would give us favorable match ups when needed.

    We were good enough to win #1 seed and home court advantage throughout the playoffs. That alone was a HUGE advantage that we could not capitalize on for the trophy. We still need to have that advantage... If we met the Heat in round 1, I think the season and the 13 year rebuilding plan would have been a bust. Disappointing at the very least. I mean, we made 2nd round without Rose and Boozer and our choice from a smorgasbord of bench players.
     
    Denny Crane, Jun 7, 2011
    #58
  19. Good Hope

    Good Hope Active Member

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    Hindsight is 20/20.

    You say ECF at best, and I say ECF at LEAST. You say if they faced Miami in the first round, and lost, they'd be a huge disappointment. I say, they didn't meet them in the first round because they had the best damn record in the whole NBA. They met them in the ECF, and the fact that DRose is 22, and he and Boozer didn't get a chance to develop a rapport due to Boozer's hand and other injuries did them in. I can live with that.

    I think the difference is experience. How many times did LeBron fail?

    I say, you reload. You get the best SG you can get, and you prepare, knowing that you are preparing for a championship run, Derrick Rose knowing what it means to fail, and a year to think about and work on the why. I take that chance.

    But yeah, if Orlando will trade us D Howard for Kwame Brown and Omer Asik, I guess I'll take it.
     
    Good Hope, Jun 7, 2011
    #59
  20. FatJerry

    FatJerry Member

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    Well said FJ

    Would you also bolster further , FJ , if an exception was available in this summers free agency class ?

    I certainly would FJ. If we could get JR Smith for two bucks fifty ( ie 2.5m Per ) then he'll yeah. You'd ride JR like Zorro when he's on and bolt his ass to the bench when he's not.

    So......


    Noah
    Boozer
    Deng
    Jackson
    Rose

    Asik
    Gibson
    Brewer
    Smith
    Mayo

    Pops Thomas
    Pops Carter

    Let the champoo flow!
     
    FatJerry, Jun 8, 2011
    #60
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