Ugh. Who was responsible for letting James Jones go?

ill tell you now so i can say i told you so later

draft the stache

 

Really? I can think of 100 reasons.

 

Tom Penn, Cap Genius, Esq.

 

We could have kept Jones had we torn up his $3.1M option year and replaced it with 2 years and a $1M raise per year (to $4.17M per year).

In case we needed him, we strung him along till draft day 6/26/08 with the possibility of an offer. That day, he declined his $3.1M player option year with us. (He obviously thought he could make more.) On 7/9/08, he signed with Miami for 5 years, but only the 1st 2 years guaranteed. After those 2 years ($8.33M total), they signed him at minimum this season ($1.07M). So in 3 years, Miami paid him $9.4M for 157 games (40, 36, 81).

Like I said, I don't know--I'm not firmly saying we should or shouldn't have signed him (so he could be healthy in 2/3 the games). I just wanted to make an offer (minimum would have been 2 years at $3.1M per, then Miami gave him 2 years for $4.1M each), because he was truly one of the league's best shooters, and not subaverage in other facets like some great shooters barely in the league. One could say that he missed a third of the games, but one had better be against re-signing Oden to be consistent. (I'm mostly there about Oden, but not 100% sure.)

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2008/06/james_jones_im_definitely_open.html

 

Wow you be smart! Are you really Whitsett? LOL

 

Or James Jones. I find it funny that the same posters who are bitching that we didn't get enough for Zach are now bitching about losing the players we got for Zach. People are bitching that we need better outside shooting when we had it (Frye and Jones, both acquired as a result of the Zach Randolph trade) and let it walk for nothing.

BNM

 

I hope you know that my post was sarcastic. KingSpeed clearly doesn't understand the salary cap chain after trading Zach.

 

You always say someone is dumb in about 1 sentence, without posting refutation of the other guy's facts.

I see nothing inconsistent about complaining that we didn't get enough for Zach, and prove it by noting how few years Frye and Jones were here.

Just snowing the guy with numbers because he's mostly right. Thanks for the Whitsitt mention. Another dollar from Uncle.

 

We didn't get James Jones directly in the Randolph deal. Furthermore, can't I complain about losing a player we got after trading ZBo?? That makes it worse. We lost BOTH! One and then the other! Kinda like getting Webster instead of Paul and then letting Webster go. All we have now is Babbitt! Horrible horrible management of our team.

And as for talk of his PER, blah, blah, blah... He just won an important PLAYOFF game for the Heat. That matters more than regular season PER.

 

We used the trade exception we got from NY in ths Zach deal to land James Jones. They were considered two separate transactions, but we got the trade exception from NY and used it to get Jones from Phoenix. Without the Zach trade, no James Jones to Portland.

Sure, you can (and do) camplaing about anything you wish. I never said you couldn't. Since when have you ever needed my permission? And, I wasn't addressing you specifically. I just find it ironic that many posters go on and on about how we got NOTHING for Zach and then also moan obout our current lack of good three point shooters. Fact is we got TWO excellent 3-point shooters for Zach. That may not have been equal value, but it was more than "nothing". Letting them both walk only compounded the error.

Still, the first year after the trade we looked like we didn't get totally hosed. Zach had a down year in NY (his PER dropped by almost 5 points), Channing Frye and James Jones were both very productive bench players. Channing also played very well late in the season as our starting center after Joel broke his hand. James Jones was lights out from 3-point range. He finished the season at 0.444 3FG% and 0.625 TS%. And, we also got the rights to Rudy Fernandez from Phoenix in the James Jones deal. And although he's not the same player he was as a rookie, Rudy was yet (at least his rookie year) another good 3-point shooter we got as a result of the Zach trade.

I'm not claiming we go fair value, but at the time the trade wasn't as lopsided as it now appears. The Zach we traded also isn't the same Zach that is now playing for Memphis. Zach's shot selection has improved greatly, and as a result, so have his shooting percentages. He is also rebounding even better than he did in Portland. Yeah, he's cleaned up the off court problems, but he's also improved substantially on the court (after two down years with the Knicks and Clippers). Compare these numbers from Zach's last (and best) season in Portland:

ORtg = 106
DRtg = 109
WS = 5.7
WS/48 = 0.112

To this season in Memphis:

ORtg = 115
DRtg = 105
WS = 10.5
WS/48 = 0.185

Zach was very immature, both on the court and off, when he was here. In hindsight, we gave up on him two early (so did the Knicks and Clippers). He was 25 when we traded him, and had two down seasons immediately after the trade. Now, at 29, in Memphis he has matured into a much better player. The basic skills haven't changed. He's just learned how to use them more effectively. He scores less, but is a more efficient scorer. He's rebounding at the highest rate of his career and led the league in ORB% this season (take THAT Kevin Love), and he's a key reason why Memphis led the league in points in the paint during the regular season and why they are doing so well in the post season.

Yep, it would be nice to have him back, but that's not going to happen. We're not getting Channing Frye, James Jones or the old Rudy back either.

So, what good 3-point shooters are going to be available this off season. It's too bad we couldn't have snagger Kyle Korver last summer. He's exactly the kind of consistent, clutch 3-point shooter this team needs - someone who can come in off the bench, spread the court and knock down big shots.

BNM

 

Like Stomp, you're being too literal. Loosen up. You know perfectly well that in English slang, "we got nothing" = "we got nothing lasting" = "we got nothing from the trade that is still here, since Rudy's value is currently low."

For example, if I say, "Boob's IQ is zero," I'm using slang. A precise scientist would say, "The upper limit of Boob's IQ is 2.4 on the Cattell Scale, and 1.8 on the Iowa Aptitude Test, allowing liberally for 3 standard deviations." In the give and take of daily discourse, you have to allow for tiny exaggerations.

This is because our coach is Nate "Your First Year Here Will Be Your Best Year, Then You'll Learn My System" McMillan. It's a nickname his grandma gave him as a baby.

Impossible. How could Zach have improved by escaping McMillan? Were any of his subsequent coaches, like ours, in the Top 23 in NBA, ABA, and BAA history combined?

http://sportstwo.com/threads/185540-11-years?p=2601439&viewfull=1#post2601439

Our bad shooting comes from the system of our 8-year coach. Korver would suck at dribbling around outside the paint, missing his shots because the opponent knows he's about to shoot. He'd go downhill like this.

http://sportstwo.com/threads/185540-11-years?p=2600419&viewfull=1#post2600419

 

james jones was a key acquisition for me on my fantasy team one year, good times, he really was approaching cult status here with that great first half season

 

Bullshit. Do you thin Heat fans gave a fuck about James Jones' regular season PER when he won a playoff game for them? The playoffs are what it's about. Championship teams need role players like him. We could've used him ourselves. Did you care what Chris Johnson had done during the regular season when he was helping us win game 3 of the playoffs? I didn't. The playoffs are all that matters.

 

gotta agree with you on this one speedy, when edgar renteria hit that homerun for the giants to win the world series, 2 years and 18 million dollars looked like a bargain, and he was in the running for one of the worst players in baseball over that span.

 

Thanks. I do want to be clear, though. I'm not rooting for the Heat. I hope the Celtics beat them in 5.

 

Boston wouldn't have won in 08 without James Posey.

 

And I never said James Jones or James Posey was better than the stars on their teams. You don't watch much basketball if you think the role players make no difference. The Bulls don't win in 93 without Paxson's shot in Game 6. And they don't win in 97 without Steve Kerr's shot in Game 6. 2000-02 Lakers don't win without Robert Horry. Spurs won their titles because, in order, the following people hit wide open threes down the stretch: Sean Elliott, Jaren Jackson, Stephen Jackson, Steve Kerr, Robert Horry, and Bruce Bowen.

In the playoffs, the defense gears in on the stars. "Role players" are left open. And you can't win championships if you don't have "role players" who can hit those shots.

We didn't have a role player who could hit those shots so we lost the series.

Of course, the stars are important, but if Jordan didn't have Kerr and Paxson knocking down wide open shots, he wouldn't have won a single title.