LOL thi sis stupid.23 ppg on 40% shooting is less efficient then 25 ppg on 46% shooting because it would take more shots by quite a bit to get 23 ppg then 25 ppg on his other shooting. Therefor, he would have to take alot more shots in order to get 23 ppg on 40% shooting then 25 ppg on 46% shooting.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jul 12 2006, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>LOL thi sis stupid.23 ppg on 40% shooting is less efficient then 25 ppg on 46% shooting because it would take more shots by quite a bit to get 23 ppg then 25 ppg on his other shooting. Therefor, he would have to take alot more shots in order to get 23 ppg on 40% shooting then 25 ppg on 46% shooting.</div>You are not understanding this at all. Last season Dirk took 1,564 shots and made 751 of them. That is good for 48%. Well we know that Dirk takes a considerable amount of 3 pointers. So then we figure he scored 2,151 points last season, that would mean in order to keep the ratio of 3pt shots and 2pt shots equal we would need to multiply each basket made by 2.86 and just assume that TMac's isane D doesn't affect his free throw shooting. Well if his percentage dropped 6% down to 42% that means he would have made 656(I even rounded down) of those 1,564 shots instead of 751 of them. 656x2.86=1,876 points. 1,876 points/81 games=23ppg. Get it now?
ONCE AGAIN!!! He averaged 21PPG in the series. This past year he averaged 7.3 FTA's per game, and made 90% of them....that is 6FT makes per game. Subtract 6.5 from 21PPG, that is 14.5 PPG from the field. Figuring he made 1 3 pointer, that is 11.5PPG. Figure around he gets an extra .5 less for FTM, so that would mean he averaged around 5FTM, 1 3PM, and 6 2PM per game. Now multiply 7 (the FGM) by 7 (# of games) , and you get 49 FGM for the series. Now multiply that by .40. That means he took approximately 20FGA's (19.6 to be exact) per game to get to 21PPG (once again, assuming he got to FT line as much as he did during 2005-2006 season). So, here are the stats in total: 2005 playoffs round 1- 21.3PPG, 40% shooting, 6 FTM per game, 6 FGM, 1 3PM, approx. 20FGA's. This is being generous, considering his 3 point % was probably lower than 40%. 2005-2006 season averages- 26.6PPG, 48% shooting, 6.6FTM per game, 9.3FGM, 1.3 3PM (shooting 40%), approx. 22FGA'sYou can't look at that and tell me that T-Mac's defense wasn't superb,and that he totally took Dirk out of the game. And I was also pretty generous in my approximations of Dirk's round 1 playoff stats. If I found the real stats, it would have been more accurate, but I figured in what he did this past season and applied it to what I knew his numbers were from the 2005 playoffs. Not to mention his APG and RPG were probably lower.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jul 12 2006, 01:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>ONCE AGAIN!!! He averaged 21PPG in the series. This past year he averaged 7.3 FTA's per game, and made 90% of them....that is 6FT makes per game. Subtract 6.5 from 21PPG, that is 14.5 PPG from the field. Figuring he made 1 3 pointer, that is 11.5PPG. Figure around he gets an extra .5 less for FTM, so that would mean he averaged around 5FTM, 1 3PM, and 6 2PM per game. Now multiply 7 (the FGM) by 7 (# of games) by .40, and you get 49 FGM for the series. No multiply that by .40. That means he took approximately 20FGA's (19.6 to be exact) per game to get to 21PPG (once again, assuming he got to FT line as much as he did during 2005-2006 season). So, here are the stats in total: 2005 playoffs round 1- 21.3PPG, 40% shooting, 6 FTM per game, 6 FGM, 1 3PM, approx. 20FGA's. This is being generous, considering his 3 point % was probably lower than 40%. 2005-2006 season averages- 26.6PPG, 48% shooting, 6.6FTM per game, 9.3FGM, 1.3 3PM (shooting 40%), approx. 22FGA'sYou can't look at that and tell me that T-Mac's defense wasn't superb,and that he totally took Dirk out of the game. And I was also pretty generous in my approximations of Dirk's round 1 playoff stats. If I found the real stats, it would have been more accurate, but I figured in what he did this past season and applied it to what I knew his numbers were from the 2005 playoffs. Not to mention his APG and RPG were probably lower.</div>Dude I am not talking about the seris please read my posts before responding to them.
I have read them, and I am not getting what you are trying to point out. I don't know how you are getting 23PPG when he inf act held Dirk to 21PPG in that series. I showed through my stats what his statline would look on any particular game if he faced T-Mac when he wanted to play D (6-15 2P, 1-3 3P, 6-7 FT= 21PPG on 40% shooting).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jul 12 2006, 01:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I have read them, and I am not getting what you are trying to point out. I don't know how you are getting 23PPG when he inf act held Dirk to 21PPG in that series. I showed through my stats what his statline would look on any particular game if he faced T-Mac when he wanted to play D (6-15 2P, 1-3 3P, 6-7 FT= 21PPG on 40% shooting).</div>I showed that if his FG% dropped 6%(for the whole season, so as if TMac guarded him every game), which was CB4's logic, that he would have still scored 23 ppg, which to me doesn't seem like much of a defensive feat.
my point was, he did not LOCK HIM DOWN. averaging 21 or 23 ppg or whatever, that is not locking him down. And none of it matters, bc Dirk was still producing and Dallas won the series. And it shouldn't matter how he guarded ONE guy in a playoff series, what matters is how they play defense on a regualr basis, which is even. if a defender holds his guy to 10 points one night and 20 the next, he's about equal to a guy that holds his man to 15 in both games. see what i'm saying?
What defenders do you know have stopped a superstar so much that they scored well under 20PPG, which is what you seem to be looking for? VERY few, if any. And I just showed that he would only score 21PPG, assuming every game was mirroring the average game in that series. T-Mac totally showed up Dirk in that series, and he held an MVP caliber big man to well below his averages. That is impressive, something Bruce Bowen couldn't do, something none of the Heat players could do, just very impressive.EDIT- NBAdogmatist- Pierce doesn't play amazing defense. I'd rather have the player who can play great D in big game situations rather than the player who plas average D every night.
I am done with this. I haved proved my point with stats, it's only a matter of opinion now. If holding a player 3-5 points under his average is "superb" to you than so be it. "Poop, that is all"
But he DIDN'T just hold him to 3-5PPG under his average. if that were the case than it wouldn't matter. But Dirk's FG % was 6% lower than 2004-2005, 8% lower than this past year. And as I said, he took Dirk out of the game. His points were quiet ones, not nearly as impactful mentally or physically as Jason Terry's were.NEW STATS! These are the ACTUAL stats from the 1st round of 2005 playoffs for Dirk:2pm- 6.4 FGA's- 18.3 FG%- 35.156 3pm- 0.6 3PA- 2.0 3P%- .286 FTM- 7.9 FTA- 9.3 FT%- 84.615 2pm- 41 2pa- 114 2p%- .360 21.3PPG, 8.9RPG, 3.3APG, 2.5 To's
This is rediculous. The Celtics fans dont seem to grasp what I am saying, even though it's right in front of them. Just give up guys..
what are you saying? I know that TMac can be a very good defender, but that's only a few games a year. The rest of the year he is mediocre/poor. Pierce is consistently decent. That's all i have been saying.and nitro, if someone were to "lock down" someone, of course i would expect them to score under 20. okay, so it rarely happens. That's is why these guys are superstars! it SHOULD be hard to hold them under 20!
And he did it better than Bruce Bowen did this year, and Shawn Marion did these past 2 years. He does it in big game situations. Hell, he even did it against Kobe this year, holding him to 23 points and hitting game winning shot over him. Next game T-Mac was suffering through injury, and had a bad game, while Kobe went 13-29 for 32 points. Kobe scored 40 each time they played Pierce and the Celtics.As I said before, I'd take player who has ability to play great D and willing to do it in clutch situations (block on JRich to send game to OT one example). Pierce doesn't have that ability. Both spend much more energy on offense (which I feel T-Mac has the edge in also) and both aren't consistent defenders. Pierce is more consistent, but T-Mac is much better when applying himself.
I can bring up plenty of games where Pierce held a player to a low scoring game, but that won't prove anything. Pierce is consistently decent, TMac decides to guard his man 5 times a year. And Pierce didn't guard Kobe, Ricky did, then TA did.
^Exactly, Pierce is consistent because he doesn't face the big guns on each team. Kobe is very much the same way, as is VC. T-Mac guards the Jrich's, the Kobe's, the Dirk's, etc... And please stop saying he only plays D x amount of times a year unless you have a quote from him saying it or have stats.
I can guarantee that TMac doesn't guard JRich. Golden State would put Dunleavy on TMac, meaning TMac would guard Dunleavy.And pierce went up against TMac and held him to 14.
Once again, T-Mac was on JRich it was a nationally televised game that I watched. And T-Mac had a block on JRich to end regulation.That game he JUST came back from injury. 2 weeks later he dropped 35 on Pierce. Pierce was held to 19 points one game, and 20 the other. 5-13 one game, 3-10 the other.
and pierce also didn't play the entire fourth quarter of the first game. He played limited minutes in both games bc they were both blow outs.
T-Mac played 27min in his 14pt game, 5-10FG. He played 38min 2nd game, and had the 35 points. Pierce played 38min the first game, had 19 points on 3-10 shooting. Played 30min the 2nd game, had 19 points on 5-13 shooting.Both players numbers were hampered by minutes, but T-Mac played better when he did play.
