Let's us say this hypothetical atheist, shortly to meet his doom, does start praying/begging. So what? Really, what is your point in the debate? What does the urge for survival embedded in all life, prove about the existence of a christian god and his son?
I'm pretty certain the Church of LDS distances itself from Warren Jeffs... http://gma.yahoo.com/warren-jeffs-wife-escapes-polygamist-community-064032555.html
really? the point is that some people are so sure about gods nonexistence that they will look down on believers, but then there they are, drowning and praying, and becoming the person they so despised. poetic justice. irony. whatever
if you thought there was a chance that it would save you, you just might. and prayer holds no such moral restrictions
But, see, I don't think there is a chance it will save me. It's just as likely that I'd click my heels together 3 times and say "I wish I was back in Kansas". You seem to think there is some repressed belief in god underneath the hood of all non-believers. It may be true for some - I expect especially for those who went to church as kids or grew up around religion, it might be likely. But people aren't born believing in god. They are trained to do so. I wasn't trained. I'm immune to your religious beliefs, they aren't any more real to me than the Wizard of Oz. barfo
the whole point of the atheist in the ocean, is that this is exactly what they would say....until the sharks close in
Ok. My theory is that religious people in the ocean curse and renounce god when the sharks close in. If you say otherwise, well, that's just what religious people say until they are in that situation. barfo
Correct. Jeff's has no ties to the actual (official) LDS church. His church (if you want to call it that) is a fundamentalist break off group attempting to justify their actions based on what can best be described as a gross and highly disturbing misapplication of the polygany (or polygamy if you want to be less accurate) once practiced by the LDS church.
The reason they "seem to think that" is that it's just as much a biblical-stressed tenet of Christianity as Jesus dying on the cross (see Romans 1, especially v. 18ff). And your assertion (which I believe that you believe) that people must be trained to believe in God is no less an article of faith than the existence of the Spaghetti Monster.
See, that's one of the things about the LDS church that causes pause.....that is, they've changed their stance on certain issues (epiphany? visions?) related to multiple wives, Blacks being allowed in the church, etc. My thought is, it it were the "truth" then, then why isn't it now?
really? that is faith to you. Revenge? I guess it makes sense when you read the Bible and the Koran. Violent and vengeful. "becoming the person they so despised" For 10 minutes. Who gives a fuck. Only a true beliver cares, with their fantasy that it IS NOT all over.
Fair enough. Although of course that belief would seem to apply not just to atheists, but also to Muslims and Buddhists etc - they are all secretly Christians. This is the sort of thing that those of us who don't drink the kool-aid find less than appealing about your religion. If you say so. I'm pretty sure if I locked a baby in a box for 20 years and exposed him to no religious references whatsoever, when he was an adult he would not be a Christian. But I can't prove that unless you donate a baby. barfo
Yeah it might give me pause for thought as well until I realize that things get changed all the time in the Bible too. Thou shalt not kill, but it's OK to eradicate the Canaanites who are occupying the promised land. Abraham was told to lie about being married to Sarah. Abraham was promised great blessings and he practiced polygany. More to the point of your question. The doctrine is that the Lord’s law of marriage is monogamy unless he commands otherwise to help establish the House of Israel. Polygany was primary instituted in modern times because the men were being killed off. There were a lot of women that needed to be taken care of. Polygany was not universally instituted. Only certain men had to do it, and they had to have the permission of any previous wife to take on another one. I know there's an easy negative spin to this, that Joe Smith just gave his buddies a bunch of women to take advantage of, but obviously I think that's a bunch of garbage (to put it mildly). And as I said, it's not unprecedented. I know some people will say that that was only the Old Testament, and the Old Testament doesn't apply anymore. At least that's the vibe I get. Well, that's just not true. The Old Testament still has relevance beyond being a historical document of the Jews. There are prophesies in the OT yet to be fulfilled as well as other significant things, but that's a broader topic than what we're discussing. To be honest with you, I don't fully understand the blacks and the priesthood thing myself. The following link is a much better explanation than I could ever give. It puts a human face on the prophets when all we seem to read in scripture is their near perfectness: http://www.blacklds.org/mauss. Even Peter had some faults. We know Moses wasn't perfect and neither was Jacob (intentionally deceiving Issac). Anyway, probably not the answer you're looking for, but it's the best I have. The link really is interesting. At least to me it was. It doesn't hide the questionable material, but puts things in context pretty well I think. One of the interesting comments in the story was that even though African Americans had their issues with the LDS church, they were pretty much the same issues they had everywhere else. Interesting that it's just the LDS church still getting grief for it now.
people search for meaning, and invent gods, always have, always will someone started believing in god in the first place, why not your box baby? and masbee wtf man, im not saying that atheists are wrong to believe what they believe, to each his own but my ocean scenario seems the most likely outcome, disagree if you want to, not trying to "convert" anyone to spaghetti monster fanaticism
Disagree. I think mankind is slowly becoming more rational and less superstitious as time goes by. The more we understand, the less useful myths are. box baby might make up a religion, but there's no reason to believe it would resemble Christianity. Maybe in box baby's religion, each human is mentally controlled by an earthworm, and when the earthworm overlord dies, the human dies. But your earthworm doesn't control me, and my earthworm doesn't control you. barfo
