this is dumb. when you drop a book you don't think it won't fall up because you have faith in gravity. it doesn't require faith to lack belief in something you have a reason not to believe in. atheism is not a faith, at least by any meaningful definition of faith.
my post wasn't wrong. there is nothing contemporaneous outside the bible - only hearsay references to jesus written decades after his death, and well after the cult of early christianity was up and running.
and real. its been inconclusive depending on whom you listen to. I actually saw it live last year, it was pretty moving as a historical artifact. this just came out actually. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/12/the-shroud-of-turin-wasnt-faked-italian-experts-say/
Mentioned in the Torah, and the Koran as well as the bible. Lots of historical writing on the guy. One could argue that it would be easier to "prove" that JC lived, than someone a century or two dead.
I am not a religious person but I find the early histories of Religions very fascinating. I'v read a lot of this subject and have come to my own conclusion that I believe Jesus was a real person. There is a lot of second hand evidence that Jesus was an actual person that mostly pops up in letters. It is hard to come up with "concrete" evidence of that time because of a few things. 1. Jesus was only alive teaching for somewhere between 3 to 5 years depending on were you get your information 2. Very few actual historical writings of that time have surivived 3. Most historians rarely recorded events of faith or religion Taking those few things into account makes it hard to both disprove and prove of Jesus existence. There are a few writings that mention Jesus most noticeably from: Josephus, Flavivus (not exactly sure how to spell his first name) - Was a jewish Historian that was born somewhere between 35 to 40 AD and he writes of Jesus in his writings Mara Bar-Serpion - Was a Philosopher in 60-70AD who wrote of Jesus's (Reffered to him as the Wise King) persecution and eventual execution, comparing it to the persecution that other Philosophers faced. There are a few more but I cannot recall anyone else at this point and time Then there are an abundance of letters that talk of Jesus but refer to him as Christ. There are many more that talk of Christians that are as old as 11AD that are placed well before the Council of Nicea took it upon itself to write the bible. Some notable people who talk of Christians well before 100AD are Lucian of Samsata who talks down about Christians but never claims they are not a people and then Cornelius Tactus who was a Roman Senator and renown for his examination of History. He blames the great fire Nero started was because of Christians. About all I can remember off the top of my head.
here's a video I shot of the shroud (wasn't supposed to, oh well). took 3 hours to go through the line to see it....for 45 seconds. [video=youtube;rVv4-5qNsvY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVv4-5qNsvY&feature=plcp&context=C333b431UDOEgsToPDskIl7WLtjsUBu2kfLxCaQArv[/video]
that's a joke, or at least some serious media spin - scientists who don't know how it happened but claim it couldn't have been "faked" (nonsensical), releasing the info just before xmas etc.
Just a couple of things from a wiki page: - Michael Grant, Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels (Scribner, 1995). Even Dawkins, who I'd imagine would be one of the guys most likely to attempt to "disprove Jesus,", said Anecdotally, I've been told by history professors at St. Andrews and Oxford that historians regard the early bible manuscripts as some of the most-documented and reliable source material in ancient history. It's the theologians who pore over details and doctrinal applications of the work. And if you can believe what creationists receive from the Smithsonian (the original question they asked the museum was about NOah's flood, which they don't buy):
yes, its all part of the conspiracy! they're trying to prop up christmas!!!!! :MARIS61: I'll wait until the "conclusive" proof of its forgery you will surely show us.
Wrong. There are historical letters that have been found from that period of time. If you're going to be an expert, at least know all of the relevant data. Unless you're looking for photographs or video, there will never be enough proof, but demanding more proof of the existence of a dude named Jesus puts you in Kooksville, because you're not going to find it for anybody from that region, and in that time period. Most of history is based on the written word, and how others interpreted the events from the pre-modern era.
you think it's just a coincidence they released this info 3 days before christmas? the only time it was carbon dated it was to the middle ages. that's the only meaningful scientific information available on it at this time.
