Anyone have experience dealing with landlord/tenant disputes?

curious, what are the damages and how much for each? is it a long list? what are the major ones?

 

Im really sorry... I hope you get there soon

 

This is what they have listed as they listed it (I added the parenthetical information as my own commentary):
Repair carpet throughout stains and burns - $555 (2 clean non-smoking adults living there for 3 years and I cleaned the carpets about a year before vacating.
-Avista (Electricity) 5/18/11 - 5/31/11 - $13.72 (Apparently we racked up that much of a bill after having vacated on 5/16/11 and owe for the electricity they use to clean up the place.)
-Repair vinyl floor entry (8 in scratch) - $75 (listed in move-in condition report)
-Repair kitchen countertop chipped - $75 (Scratches listed on move-in condition report, but I don't recall any chips)
-Drywall repair excessive nail/screws - $100 (About 48 total holes 15 of which were from putting up curtain rods)
-Replace closet door 4 nails and scratched - $55 (Don't know what they're talking about here. Never put nails in any door)
-Replace damaged door bathroom wht plastic - $55 (Might be referring to a robe hook that was there when we moved in, but I don't know.)
-Processing Fee - PCR at possession - $228.75 (25% fee tacked on to whatever bill they decide we owe.)
TOTAL - 1,157.47: DUE 9/30/11

Strangely, the small claims court notice we got says we owe $1600 not $1,157.47 and that became due on 9/15/11 and not 9/30/11 and that we owe that amount for our Avista utilities, but no other items are listed like property damages.

 

probably court costs and process server estimation and employee time to go down there, which they probably can't get but they'll try.

the charges don't seem excessive to me and I think you'll have a hard time arguing to get them written off, you MAY be able to get them reduced. They probably installed new carpet on your dime.

in all honesty, you may have an easier time offering them money to drop it, maybe half, but it'll probably end up being 75%. It'll save you the trouble of going there and paying what you'll eventually be paying. the big problem is you didn't have a move-out inspection so you can't dispute anything unless its listed on your move in inspection list.

 

Did you make the stains and burns? Did you specify stains or burns on the carpet on the initial walk through? If you have them on the initial, then say those are the same stains and burns that were on the initial walk through. If they don't have a signed "walk through" stating new ones, then they can't charge you for it.

Also look at this...

Another thing you can do is call carpet cleaning companies in that area and get quotes on the carpet. If they charged 555, yet you got quotes of 150-200, then the judge may reduce that bill. But I wouldn't bring that up until you know that the judge will not accept the first argument that those stains and burns were already there.

 

Here is another link Residential landlord-tenant act

You need these actual statutes in court. Gotta look them up and have them ready. Because some judges won't even admit that law unless you actually say that law on record.

 

MUST READ

This is a nice PDF, written by a lawyer on your rights as a tenant.

 

The carpet did not require replacement, it barely required cleaning except for the high traffic areas. Plus, the bill stated that it was repaired and not replaced. I get what you're saying though. Cut my losses even though the damages are bogus. I think I'm too stubborn for that. At this point, I think I'd rather battle it out in small claims court (no attorney's fees) then try to settle for anything close to half that amount. 25% of it is just a dumb processing fee! Who knows. Maybe I'll get more data and get less emotional about it and suck it up and take the screw job.

 

Thanks, Mags. I've looked at all the stuff you've linked to so far. I've been at this for a little bit now. I looked up stuff when I got the bill in September and have been looking up stuff since the Sheriff came at around 1 pm yesterday (Wednesday). When I sent my response to the bill in September I cited a few RCW sections. I guess they weren't impressed...

 

Yeah. I'd probably fight it too, but its a lot of time and expense to travel back there, lodging, food, etc. I'd find every minor violation and report them to the housing authority. Also, smear them online, every rent.com review board, submit unique complaints about this entire process after its settled, start blogs, etc.

Also, do a google search on the property management company and see if there are other similar instances of similar problems.

 

The only possible stains on the carpet were from the high traffic areas and that's just dirt that would come out from a professional carpet cleaning and maybe some pre-treating. I have no idea what they're talking about with the burns. We don't smoke and never had anyone in the apartment that smoked. In other words, there were no burn marks in the carpet.

Pricing the carpet cleaning isn't a bad idea. I imagine the whole apartment could have been cleaned for that price. It wasn't a huge apartment.

 

Well it seems the jest of the bill is carpet. I could really argue this, but I've been in court too many times to count.

Basically you job to "make a reason for doubt" is not saying it does exist, but that they don't have the information to support the total amount. For example: If you call local carpet cleaning companies and make estimates of types of repairs. Let's say they charge $20 for a 3 x 3 square. Then before I explain my point, I would ask questions like. How many sq. ft. of carpet you repaired? In what rooms needed the repair? Do you have receipts from your carpet cleaning company on the said repairs? If they said "I don't know, I don't have that information in front of me", then I would reply "Well if you don't have that information, then how do you know for sure that the areas were even repaired?" or I would try to get an answer out of them like "Well do you think it's roughly 10 sq inches? 3 feet? the whole house?" Maybe they answer 10 sq. ft.

Now if you got 5 quotes from carpet cleaners in that area and that 10 sq. ft. cost only $50 bucks to repair, then you just lowered it to $50.

 

No way it's that price! Usually carpet cleaning is roughly $20 per room. So a normal apartment is roughly the equivalent of 4 rooms, basically 80 bucks. They can't charge you for normal wear and tear, and I would also get on-line definitions of "normal wear and tear" to use in court. I also like what Presidente said about looking the company up on google. If you can find a lot of complaints by previous tenants, then use that in court as well. Also, I would look up a database on judgements against the company too. All court proceedings are public domain. Basically, if someone has already beaten them, then you can use that same court case to beat them again.

 

The management company was hit with a huge fine a year or so ago for not adhering to ADA requirements in several of their complexes. It was something like $5M. The attorney I talked to says this management company tries to pull crap like this all the time. I have a good friend I made the mistake of recommending moving into the complex who was charged $400 for damages when they moved out, including a broken sink fixture that was broken when they moved in but never got fixed and wasn't included in their move-in walkthrough. There are several complaints online about this company. I'm not really sure what to do with it though besides having my buddy testify in small claims for me, but it's just he said/she said still.

 

Here is what I would focus on. First of all, you should DEMAND any photos of the damages in court and ask to inspect them individually for each itemization. Say you were never provided this. If they don't have it with them, say that the apartment was in pristine condition and matched the move-in condition. Without photographic proof, say there is no verification of damage.

1. Repair carpet throughout stains and burns - $555. Do what Mag says, get quotes around town. Get the square footage of your company and ask what is a reasonable rate. Your "evidence" would be the pre-inspection, your bill for cleaning the carpets if you have it, and estimates for spot stain and burn cleaning. Also, try to get a quote for new carpet installation in an apartment that size. If its around $555, argue with the judge that you just paid for new carpeting for them instead of "repairing" old carpet. Try to get an online quote or something as it may be a bitch to get a quote from a dealer there without them going to the location.

2. Avista (Electricity): Say you vacated the property on XXXXX date. All lights, heating, were turned off. Ask them if they entered the premises during this period in court. Do you have any documentation of your move-out date? If so, copy that and show that you were no longer in there. If they entered the property, they did so without giving you any notice so there's a violation right there if they try to argue your lease had not ended.

3. Repair vinyl floor entry (8 in scratch) - $75 (listed in move-in condition report). Easy. Just say its in the move-in report.

4. Repair kitchen countertop chipped - $75 (Scratches listed on move-in condition report, but I don't recall any chips). Easy. Just don't say you don't recall any "chips". Say it is as it was listed in the move-in report. Never admit anything that can be interpreted. Just say, the damage was listed on the move-in report.

5. Drywall repair excessive nail/screws - $100 (About 48 total holes 15 of which were from putting up curtain rods). You'll pay this probably.

6. Replace closet door 4 nails and scratched - $55 (Don't know what they're talking about here. Never put nails in any door). Ask for a photo.

7. Replace damaged door bathroom wht plastic - $55 (Might be referring to a robe hook that was there when we moved in, but I don't know.). Ask for photo of damage.

8. Processing Fee - PCR at possession. Ask them what this is. Tell them you are not responsible for any processing fee. Ask them to show you in the lease where they are entitled to this (examine the lease to make sure its not in there though).

When you speak to the judge, mention that this was all unexpected, frivolous and sent to you once you had already moved out of Spokane (assuming this is the case). Argue that what they are doing is underhanded in the expectation you would not show and that you had to travel great lengths to travel, take time out of work.

Say you attempted to question the bill and settle it. Bring your letters and make it a point that they were not willing to work with you, explain the charges, etc. Make sure you say this sentence on the record to the judge

"I believe that they were purposefully avoiding answering my questions out of bad faith"

make it seem like that you made every effort at rectifying the situation and that they are using the small claims system to avoid a proper explanation/documentation of damages. Print out the complaints and the fine they had to pay (just a few pages and highlight key phrases) just in case, and say that this seems to be their common practice.

 

El Presendente! When I get into buying houses to rent, I'm going to pay you to manage them! Nice work! BTW... My family owns about 30 residences and I used to manage them. And we were known to be good landlords, yet I felt like it was the biggest headache of my life. I feel for you man!

 

also, in small claims, sometimes the judge won't let you talk or go on a diatribe, which is a mistake that many people do.

try not to speak TOO much unless he asks you to. be very direct, everything based on subjective FACTS. most judges are assholes and its more about whether they like you unless you have an iron-clad case.

 

Thanks for the advice. I've copied it into my notes for prepping for court. Question. If I was told by the manager when we moved in that the nonrefundable redecorating fee was used to cover carpet cleaning, hole filling and painting, etc., why should I have to pay $100 for spackling a normal amount of holes? I'm trying to gather random photos we have of our place to show it was in good shape when we moved out (since I didn't take any photos for that specific purpose), but I don't have any yet that are definitive. I'm hoping I can find some from family and friends that were visiting when we were packing up.

 

Noted. It's easy to get emotional and off point when you feel personally attacked like this, but I'm sure I can do it. It'll probably piss me off if s/he doesn't let me present my argument though.

 

Unless the photos are date-stamped, it won't really help you IMO. Maybe bring a few of them but don't spend a lot of time doing so.

OK, didn't know about the redecorating fee. You should start off then with that. The judge will ask you to explain your point of view. Tell him, that you were told that you paid this redecorating fee of $300 (see if you can get any explanation of it or proof that you paid) and it would be used for minor repairs such as carpet cleaning and filling holes.... which is what the company is trying to sue you for. If they counter that somehow, then just move onto your main arguments....no documentation of damages then follow (if necessary) with a line-by-line dispute of the bills.

Say the apartment was in the same condition when you moved in and any damages claimed by the management company should have been taken out of this "redecorating fee".