Someone may of already did this.. but i didnt see it.. so who is it yall?who would you rather have on your team and why?I would chose nash because he is more of a versitile player and he makes his team better and is always creating plays.
This has already been a thread, and it was quite a heated debate between myself and mavsfan.Once again, I'll take Iverson in his prime over Nash in his prime. Why? Not only can Iverson dish the ball out and rack up assists, but he can score at will as well. Not to mention he has the biggest heart out of pretty much anybody in the league. Defense is not even an issue in this comparison because both are mediocre (and I'm being nice here) man-to-man defenders. Iverson may have the slight edge simply because he plays the passing lanes more than Nash does.Overall, I'm taking Iverson.
I'd take Iverson. Better scorer, better clutch player, better defender, better vocal leader. But if I were to start my team around one of them, it'd probably be Nash just for the fact that it's easier to put a bunch of shooter around a passing PG then a bunch of specific role players around an all star SG.
I would rather have Steve Nash. If he has people around him that can shoot a basketball, he will get them involved, and the team will score points. Iverson doesnt really pass as much as he could, or should. And if I were selecting who I'd want to be my pg, definately Nash.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jul 12 2006, 05:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I would rather have Steve Nash. If he has people around him that can shoot a basketball, he will get them involved, and the team will score points. Iverson doesnt really pass as much as he could, or should. And if I were selecting who I'd want to be my pg, definately Nash.</div>Why don't we actually pair up AI with a good player worth of AI passing to a lot then you can use that statement...
Iverson for me. This guy has subpar D, but at least he has some. And AI is a much better scorer... and can rack assists maybe not as good as Nash, but good enough for me to choose Iverson over Nash
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iversonfan268 @ Jul 13 2006, 04:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Why don't we actually pair up AI with a good player worth of AI passing to a lot then you can use that statement...</div>If you put AI on the Suns, you definately wouldnt be in the same position as they arenow, or last year for one.Steve Nash = team ppg and wins. AI = personal pg and a 7th or 8th seed.Sorry, Id much rather have Nash running my offense then AI. And I think any non-Sixer of AI fan would agree with me.
If I was asked to take a point guard on my team it would be Nash even though I do think Iverson is the better player. Nash is better as a point guard because of his passing but Iverson can score much more, has more D, he can play more because he doesen't have back problems like Nash. He's just the better overall player.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigMo763 @ Jul 12 2006, 07:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This has already been a thread, and it was quite a heated debate between myself and mavsfan.Once again, I'll take Iverson in his prime over Nash in his prime. Why? Not only can Iverson dish the ball out and rack up assists, but he can score at will as well. Not to mention he has the biggest heart out of pretty much anybody in the league. Defense is not even an issue in this comparison because both are mediocre (and I'm being nice here) man-to-man defenders. Iverson may have the slight edge simply because he plays the passing lanes more than Nash does.Overall, I'm taking Iverson.</div>First of all you say Iverson can dish the ball out and rack up assist, that is what Nash is comonly know for. He can do that just as good as the next person and probably better. And he can deffinatly score the ball. I will give you Iverson has heart, ive seen him playing with his injurys and for that i will always respect him. But like i said who would you rather have on your team. I want a player who has great vision and can create plays.. create something out of nothing. Iverson may be the better player and althlete, but not the better teamate.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jul 13 2006, 02:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you put AI on the Suns, you definately wouldnt be in the same position as they arenow, or last year for one.Steve Nash = team ppg and wins. AI = personal pg and a 7th or 8th seed.Sorry, Id much rather have Nash running my offense then AI. And I think any non-Sixer of AI fan would agree with me.</div>Are you kidding? Allen Iverson would kill to play w/ guys like Shawn Marion, STAT, Diaw, etc. You think if AI was put w/ a supporting cast like that he would still hog the ball? I guarantee you he wouldn't. Maybe the reason AI doesn't play a true team game is because he doesn't have a great team around him. When are you gonna realize that? His supporting cast is the definition of inconsistency and most of the players on his team are scared to do anything with the ball other than mainly Webber and Salmons but they both shot the worst fg% on the team last year. AI plays the way he does to win. Honestly with his supporting cast it's amazing he can even get 7.5 apg. That shows he does distribute the ball a lot w/ a team like his.BTW Hughes2James23 congrats you just proved you don't watch Iverson at all and just assume what the media says. Iverson just shot 45% from the field last season. Honestly I think that's a great % for a guy like Iverson. I mean this is guy that is only 6'0 who takes around 25 shots a game and makes 45% of them. That's not bad at all. Pluys his shot selection has been getting better also another thing you would know if you actually watched him.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iversonfan268 @ Jul 14 2006, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Are you kidding? Allen Iverson would kill to play w/ guys like Shawn Marion, STAT, Diaw, etc. You think if AI was put w/ a supporting cast like that he would still hog the ball? I guarantee you he wouldn't. Maybe the reason AI doesn't play a true team game is because he doesn't have a great team around him. When are you gonna realize that? His supporting cast is the definition of inconsistency and most of the players on his team are scared to do anything with the ball other than mainly Webber and Salmons but they both shot the worst fg% on the team last year. AI plays the way he does to win. Honestly with his supporting cast it's amazing he can even get 7.5 apg. That shows he does distribute the ball a lot w/ a team like his.BTW Hughes2James23 congrats you just proved you don't watch Iverson at all and just assume what the media says. Iverson just shot 45% from the field last season. Honestly I think that's a great % for a guy like Iverson. I mean this is guy that is only 6'0 who takes around 25 shots a game and makes 45% of them. That's not bad at all. Pluys his shot selection has been getting better also another thing you would know if you actually watched him.</div>OK, first of all Amare didnt play for the Suns last year. He was out with a leg injury in case you missed that..AI would not do as well as Nash does in the Suns offense. AI is not as good as Nash at getting guys open 3 pointers. The Suns didnt have Amare, JJ or Q Rich and they still had the best offense in the League last year. And that is because of Nash's ability to get players open 3 pointers. AI would need more touches then Nash needs I think, and Nash is just the clear out better passer here. Also, Nash shoots a much higher fg% then AI, and is the much better shooter...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jul 14 2006, 11:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>OK, first of all Amare didnt play for the Suns last year. He was out with a leg injury in case you missed that..AI would not do as well as Nash does in the Suns offense. AI is not as good as Nash at getting guys open 3 pointers. The Suns didnt have Amare, JJ or Q Rich and they still had the best offense in the League last year. And that is because of Nash's ability to get players open 3 pointers. AI would need more touches then Nash needs I think, and Nash is just the clear out better passer here. Also, Nash shoots a much higher fg% then AI, and is the much better shooter...</div>Yes CB4 I know Amare didn't play last season. The point is Nash did play w/ him and 04/05 and will be playing w/ him again this season. Iverson would love to play w/ Amare this season. You don't get it. All AI does care is about winning. He will change his role on a team if it's best for the team. We've already seen that by being switched to PG on the Sixers. He became PG so he started racking up assists and becoming more of a playmaker than before. You don't seem to understand Iverson does all the scoring because nobody will step up exept the two players that shoot worse than AI, Webber and Salmons. BTW ever think that maybe the reason Nash shoots a higher % then AI is because he talks half the amount of shots AI takes in a game.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jordan4pres. @ Jul 14 2006, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>First of all you say Iverson can dish the ball out and rack up assist, that is what Nash is comonly know for. He can do that just as good as the next person and probably better. And he can deffinatly score the ball. I will give you Iverson has heart, ive seen him playing with his injurys and for that i will always respect him. But like i said who would you rather have on your team. I want a player who has great vision and can create plays.. create something out of nothing. Iverson may be the better player and althlete, but not the better teamate.</div>Nash is commonly known for racking up assists? He has only had two GREAT assist per game averages the past two seasons, but prior to that he wasn't commonly known for his assists. Nash only started being "a great team player" (in the eyes of most fans) when he went to PHX and was surrounded with talent that took advantage of his best skills. Put Iverson with a team like that, and he'd dish out double digit assists. Not quite as many as Nash, but he'd be up there. Hell, put Iverson on a team like that, and he would probably join Tiny Archibald as the only players to lead the league in scoring and assists in the same season. Give Iverson a supporting cast like what Nash had last season (and even moreso the year before), and he'd be unstoppable.Also, whoever said Iverson can't get PHX as many open three pointers needs to get their head examined. Granted, he might not get as many as Nash (although I honestly believe he could), but it wouldn't be a huge dropoff. Why? Nash creates open three-point opportunities for his teammates by way of his penetration, and Iverson is right up there in terms of relentlessly attacking the rim. Iverson was solely responsible for setting up Korver last year, and Korver averaged 5.3 three-point attempts per game... that was fifth in the league last year. In comparison, Raja Bell averaged 5.6... give Iverson more targets on the perimeter, and he'll hit them. Hell, if you watch Iverson you'd realize how many times he penetrates and dishes, and that is one of the primary reasons Nash racks up so many assists... penetration and kick-it-out. Granted, Nash has better court vision, but Iverson has never been given the same opportunity to run an up-tempo fastbreak offense like Nash has.It comes down to what you're looking for. Do you want a player who can push the ball and hit the open players (Nash)... or do you want a player who can score at will as well as push the ball and find the open man? I'll take Iverson any day of the week... both in a fastbreak system and a half-court system, especially if I have the athletes the Suns had last year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iversonfan268 @ Jul 14 2006, 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yes CB4 I know Amare didn't play last season. The point is Nash did play w/ him and 04/05 and will be playing w/ him again this season. Iverson would love to play w/ Amare this season. You don't get it. All AI does care is about winning. He will change his role on a team if it's best for the team. We've already seen that by being switched to PG on the Sixers. He became PG so he started racking up assists and becoming more of a playmaker than before. You don't seem to understand Iverson does all the scoring because nobody will step up exept the two players that shoot worse than AI, Webber and Salmons. BTW ever think that maybe the reason Nash shoots a higher % then AI is because he talks half the amount of shots AI takes in a game.</div>I thought we were talking about the better pg last year, not in 04-05...Nash didnt have Amare in 05-05, and I think that's when we're comparing him. I dont care if he will change his role. Nash is better at setting up his guys for 3 pointers, and he is the better all around play maker, and passer. I doubt that AI could make that last years' team the #1 offense in the NBA. Is that a bad thing? So what? Nash has better shot selection, and he shoots a better percentage. Case closed.And HisGreatness, that was like the worst post of the day. You didnt even explain why..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigMo763 @ Jul 14 2006, 02:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nash is commonly known for racking up assists? He has only had two GREAT assist per game averages the past two seasons, but prior to that he wasn't commonly known for his assists. Nash only started being "a great team player" (in the eyes of most fans) when he went to PHX and was surrounded with talent that took advantage of his best skills. Put Iverson with a team like that, and he'd dish out double digit assists. Not quite as many as Nash, but he'd be up there. Hell, put Iverson on a team like that, and he would probably join Tiny Archibald as the only players to lead the league in scoring and assists in the same season. Give Iverson a supporting cast like what Nash had last season (and even moreso the year before), and he'd be unstoppable.Also, whoever said Iverson can't get PHX as many open three pointers needs to get their head examined. Granted, he might not get as many as Nash (although I honestly believe he could), but it wouldn't be a huge dropoff. Why? Nash creates open three-point opportunities for his teammates by way of his penetration, and Iverson is right up there in terms of relentlessly attacking the rim. Iverson was solely responsible for setting up Korver last year, and Korver averaged 5.3 three-point attempts per game... that was fifth in the league last year. In comparison, Raja Bell averaged 5.6... give Iverson more targets on the perimeter, and he'll hit them. Hell, if you watch Iverson you'd realize how many times he penetrates and dishes, and that is one of the primary reasons Nash racks up so many assists... penetration and kick-it-out. Granted, Nash has better court vision, but Iverson has never been given the same opportunity to run an up-tempo fastbreak offense like Nash has.It comes down to what you're looking for. Do you want a player who can push the ball and hit the open players (Nash)... or do you want a player who can score at will as well as push the ball and find the open man? I'll take Iverson any day of the week... both in a fastbreak system and a half-court system, especially if I have the athletes the Suns had last year.</div>Nash is comonly known for making playes and in most situations they are assist. And thank you for bringing up there 3 point shooting. Nash is obviously the better 3 point shooter. Like i said before he has the ability to create plays for himself and his teamates. Something ive noticed, Iverson shoots the ball a lot.Mabye it is just me but does he miss a lot of the greedy ass shots that he takes? Right there is one that that pisses me off when i am playing with someone like that. Iverson needs to get it through his head that he has a team and he needs to do what he can to make HIS TEAM better. He is not on a bad team. They have a lot of talent. So dont bring up PHXes team. I am talking about the player. I am talking about who is gonna get assist create playes, win games, not be greedy with the ball, make his team better...Not someone who is gonna try to take over the game and blow it and not win games and who doesnt make his team better. keep the opinions comming.. i am liking this lol...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jordan4pres. @ Jul 14 2006, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nash is comonly known for making playes and in most situations they are assist. And thank you for bringing up there 3 point shooting. Nash is obviously the better 3 point shooter. Like i said before he has the ability to create plays for himself and his teamates. Something ive noticed, Iverson shoots the ball a lot.Mabye it is just me but does he miss a lot of the greedy ass shots that he takes? Right there is one that that pisses me off when i am playing with someone like that. Iverson needs to get it through his head that he has a team and he needs to do what he can to make HIS TEAM better. He is not on a bad team. They have a lot of talent. So dont bring up PHXes team. I am talking about the player. I am talking about who is gonna get assist create playes, win games, not be greedy with the ball, make his team better...Not someone who is gonna try to take over the game and blow it and not win games and who doesnt make his team better. keep the opinions comming.. i am liking this lol...</div>His supporting cast is completely overrated. The only guy in that starting lineup that isn't afraid to do something w/ the ball most of the time is Webber but the problem is all he can do now is shoot a flat jumpshot he only makes 40% of the time. Then there's Iguodala a kid w/ so much talent who seems scared to death on the court and doesn't want to do anythign w/ the ball most of the time unless he has an easy basket. There's Korver who's 3 point shooting is overrated IMO becuase he can never seem to make it when it actually counts like in crunch time. And then of course there's Dalemburt who doesn't have an offensive bone in his body. Do you still think his supporting cast is very good? You obviously didn't read Bigmos post if your gonna still go and sya he doesn't play team ball. You also obviously never watch the Sixers play by your statement and your most likely just going by what the media makes him out to be.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jordan4pres. @ Jul 14 2006, 04:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nash is comonly known for making playes and in most situations they are assist. And thank you for bringing up there 3 point shooting. Nash is obviously the better 3 point shooter. Like i said before he has the ability to create plays for himself and his teamates. Something ive noticed, Iverson shoots the ball a lot.Mabye it is just me but does he miss a lot of the greedy ass shots that he takes? Right there is one that that pisses me off when i am playing with someone like that. Iverson needs to get it through his head that he has a team and he needs to do what he can to make HIS TEAM better. He is not on a bad team. They have a lot of talent. So dont bring up PHXes team. I am talking about the player. I am talking about who is gonna get assist create playes, win games, not be greedy with the ball, make his team better...Not someone who is gonna try to take over the game and blow it and not win games and who doesnt make his team better. keep the opinions comming.. i am liking this lol...</div>First of all, perhaps you should re-read my post and tell me where I compared Iverson's three-point shooting to Nash's... oh, wait, that's right, I didn't! Also, playmaking is not just about getting assists, it is about creating opportunities, whether it be for yourself or for your teammates. The difference between Iverson's teammates and Nash's teammates are vastly significant. I've broken everything down before already, but I'll be glad to keep breaking it down if you really want me to.Now, you don't want me to bring up Phoenix's team, right? Well, that is just plain retarded because if you can't see that the players that Phoenix surrounded Nash with ALLOW him to be the playmaker he is, then you are not worth debating with. If the Suns don't run all day, Nash doesn't rack up that many assists. Give Iverson a running team with a variety of threats from the perimeter, and then come tell me he doesn't pass. The difference between the skill sets of the role players of the two teams are so vastly different, that it is amazing that Iverson still propelled the Sixers to be one of the top offensive teams in the league.Nash has an athletic beast in Shawn Marion who can rebound at will, run the floor, shoot the three (although not that well), defend, and does pretty much everything well on the basketball court. Now, Iverson has a broken down Chris Webber who sits at the free throw line shooting jumpers all day, connecting on only 41% of them. Before you come back and say "well that is because of Iverson," watch the games Iverson missed this past season, and Webber STILL sat at the free throw line launching line-drive jumpers. Who has the advantage there? Nash.The center spot is easily advantageous for Nash. Boris Diaw is the MIP, whereas Dalembert is an overpaid, raw, athletic center with a low basketball IQ and some of the worst hands in the NBA. If he could catch a ball, Iverson would have just as many assists as Nash. Don't believe me? Ask most non-Sixers fans (specifically those fans of Eastern Conference teams), and most of them will tell you the same.Iguodala is a solid player, but unfortunately he wasn't as aggressive as we needed him to be. Before Iverson gets blamed for that, let's take a look at those first few games right after the All-Star Game, shall we? Iguodala got the same amount of touches, but instead of passing, he attacked offensively, put pressure on the defense, and looked to score. What happened? He scored 20+ points. The only thing holding Iguodala back is his attitude when it comes to being aggressive on the offensive end.The Suns have MORE talent than the Sixers do (surrounding Nash and Iverson, respectively), and thats not even including Amare Stoudemire. Put Iverson in a situation that Nash is in, and he will easily be a frontrunner for the MVP award. Nash is one of the best players in the league (notice I'm not using the word "great"), but his stats are moreso the product of the system that Phoenix runs. Put any capable point guard in that offense, and it would still be one of the top offenses in the league, but I will agree that Nash runs it better than most point guards do, and just puts them over the top (offensively).Now, let's just see how "valuable" Nash is... put Nash on the Sixers instead of Iverson, do they improve that much? Nope... hell, they might even be slightly worse. Put Iverson on the Suns, and they should be about the same as they were with Nash, with possibly a slight dropoff, but nothing too major.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Something ive noticed, Iverson shoots the ball a lot.Mabye it is just me but does he miss a lot of the greedy ass shots that he takes? Right there is one that that pisses me off when i am playing with someone like that. Iverson needs to get it through his head that he has a team and he needs to do what he can to make HIS TEAM better.</div>Yes, Iverson shoots a lot, but he doesn't miss those "greedy ass shots" he takes. He had his best shooting season since early in his career. The man shot 45% this year, but he missed "a lot of his shots"? Yeah... right. Once again, people need to realize that players like Kobe and Iverson HAVE to put up that many shots in order to even give their team a CHANCE to win the game. But hey, you'll find that out soon enough after DWade is put in the same situation once Shaq retires.Also, please watch the Sixers and get a clue about WHY they had such a poor season before saying that Iverson is responsible for their lack of success. Iverson helped the Sixers be one of the best offensive teams in the league despite his selfishness (according to you). Despite Iverson's selfishness, the trio of AI/CWebb/Iggy was the highest scoring trio in the league. Despite Iverson's selfishness, he was only 8th in the league in assists. Despite Iverson's selfishness he had five 40 point and 10 assist games last season, giving him nine for his career (which by the way is the most among active players). Despite his selfishness he became one of only 7 players in NBA history to record back to back 40 point, 10 assist games (and the first since 1991). Despite all his selfishness, the Sixers averaged 100 points a night, and were the eighth best scoring team in the league. Despite all that... Iverson doesn't help make his team better, right?Oh wait, you forgot the BIG issue as to why the Sixers had such a poor season... DEFENSE. Now, granted Iverson isn't the best man-to-man defender in the world, but he is better than Nash. Defense was the Sixers' achilles heel this season. Webber had it in his mind that his knee gave him an excuse not to even try to play defense... Dalembert just decided to goaltend everything that was put up... and Korver, although he gave effort, just wasn't athletic enough to keep his man in front of him most of the time (but he was our best weakside help defender). Iguodala was our only good defender. So, unless you can somehow prove to me that a player, let alone a six-foot point guard, should be able to lock down every opposing player at the same time, the argument that Iverson didn't help make the Sixers a better team last year is completely bogus.Hey... I think I'm liking this more than you are. How about you go watch Iverson play more than three times a season, and then formulate your own opinion instead of throwing out the media stereotypes about his game that were thrown out early in his career.Keep it coming... trust me, by the end of this debate you will unfortunately be made to look like a fool.EDIT: One more thing, since it seems like you believe Nash is more efficient, why don't I just let you know right now that according to NBA.com, Iverson had the higher efficiency rating this past season. I'm not big on stats, but hey...
Holy sh*t! Annilhated! I think bigmo is the best poster here.Anyway, iversonfan, Im choosing not to continue with you because your too ignorant. You dont seem to get that Nash is the better passer and playmaker then Iverson. I would take Nash running my offense over Iverson really.Iverson is the better overall player because of what he does on the scoring end, but Nash is the better "true" pg if I had to choose one to run my team.
