Chris Haynes: Chad in panic mode (Re: Batum)

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Fez Hammersticks, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. Boise Blazer

    Boise Blazer Thread Lightly

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    And we arent talking about maxing out Nico. If paying a guy say $10 mil vs. $8 mil or $9 mil vs $7 is what people think will hinder this franchise in the long run then we have WAAAAAY bigger problems then how to handle Batum. And the stupid thing is that if we dont pay to keep Batum guess what we are probably going to do? .... Go out and overpay an older player to do the same thing.
     
  2. Further

    Further Guy

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    I just want the Blazers to offer a contract that is an honest good faith attempt to sign Batum. If they just try to lowball because they have the leverage, then Batum could sour on the organization. That does not mean the Blazers need to offer a big contract, or one that Batum will accept at the moment. Just one that is likely to be close to what he would be offered this summer as a RFA. Hopefully a deal is cemented, but if not, no biggie, as long as the team and Batum are on good terms.
     
  3. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    Keep one thing in the back of your mind. During a negotiation, there are bound to be leaks from a player's agent if the don't hold much leverage. I'm not saying it's false that the Blazers low-balled him, but the fact that this tidbit from a negotiation made it into the public domain should alert you that somebody could be planting a seed amongst the fans hoping for a hue and cry against the team for being skinflints.

    Chances are they reach a figure both sides are happy with by the 25th and all of this chatter is going to be quickly forgotten.
     
  4. Blazinaway

    Blazinaway Well-Known Member

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    I'd offer 4 yrs at 32 mil, I think that's fair and in line with what others have received at his level
     
  5. Boise Blazer

    Boise Blazer Thread Lightly

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    Do you think he better, worse or about the same as Aaron Afflalo? I only asked because he signed a 5 year $43 contract or roughly $8.6 per.

    For anyone interested: http://bkref.com/tiny/hsWxh
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2012
  6. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    Afflalo had a really great year last year which was well timed. Is Nic better or worse? I don't know. I guess I'd say Nic's ceiling could be higher, but to date his production has been lower.
     
  7. Further

    Further Guy

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    I actually don't believe that the last offer was a low ball. Perhaps earlier ones were, chances are if Batums side is now presenting a counter offer, it likely indicates that the two sides are at least somewhat within a realistic spread of each other. A common tactic in negotiating (in business, I don't know about bball specifically) is make the first offer extremely weak, watch the reaction, and then use that information to offer more realistic offers that are at the low end of what the opposing side would accept. It is common for those preliminary offers to be ignored to demonstrate that the offer is laughable and to not divulge negotiation strategy or information.

    On this third offer, Batums side responded, meaning that the offer has likely risen to at least an honest attempt.
     
  8. Boise Blazer

    Boise Blazer Thread Lightly

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    Nic is also 3 years younger. Whether anyone wants to or not the team that signs him is going to have to pay for that potential.
     
  9. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    This is not the first and it won't be the last contract the Blazers negotiate. So yes in a vacuum you could say it’s only $2 million so who cares, but if you take that $2 million for the 4 years of his contract its $8 million and with Batum being one of seven key rotational players that becomes a difference of $56 million. That is $140 million over the next decade. We are going to have many more contract negotiations in the future; an attitude of overpaying players will contribute to this team being less competitive.

    The team in recent times has negotiated good contracts with Martell, Outlaw, Blake, Andre Miller, LaMarcus, Wesley. So I hope they again continue to make prudent decisions on getting good free agents but not at a price that prevents the team from acquiring other assets.
     
  10. Boise Blazer

    Boise Blazer Thread Lightly

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    I agree that makes sense if you were looking at the big and you were doing that for all of the rotational players - but you're not. What other up and coming players do we have that show the potential Batum may have? You make a valid point about the mindset but you describe the worst case scenario if we did that for every player.
     
  11. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    If you really want to keep Batum here in the long term it may be better to wait a few months until he's a RFA, he will be eligible for a 5 year contract from the Blazers in the summer but right now is only eligible for 4 additional years on an extension.
     
  12. Boise Blazer

    Boise Blazer Thread Lightly

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    I like a 5 years deal but I also worry that if he goes RFA then some team that isnt smart like some want us to be and will overbid for him and we will need pressured to match then instead of overpaying him a little now we will be overpaying him a lot later. Maybe, maybe not. I dont know but I guess its a pick your poison situation.
     
  13. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    I'm a little burned out on the "potential" thing. How many times did we hear that about Travis Outlaw? Martell Webster? Sergio Rodriguez? Rudy Fernandez? Sure I'd rather have an identical player who is younger. But I'm not willing to drastically overpay an inferior player just because he is younger. Young players who are stud difference makers show glimpses as a rookie, it didn't take Lebron or Durant years to become studs, they were that way right out of the gate. LaMarcus was a solid #2 option in his second season. Sure other young guys could improve, but after a few years if it hasn't happened you're hoping for a great role player not a franchise building block.

    Crawford, Wallace, Felton, and Camby will all be free agents, but unlike Batum they will all be unrestricted. We are going to want a new PG and C. I think it's much more likely we need an extra $2million to bring in a starter at one of those positions then it would be to overpay Batum now when we have rights to match any offer he receives anyways.


    Just because something bad could possibly happen doesn't mean we should do a less bad decision now. Also, if Batum gets a huge RFA offer that likely means he is playing well this season and we have a great player to build around, so that isn't such a horrible scenario.

    What if we give Batum a big extension now and he plays like he has his entire career for the rest of the season? Maybe he wouldn't get more then the $5million MLE? Then we would've overpaid him and lost the flexability to add a free agent.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2012
  14. Boob-No-More

    Boob-No-More Why you no hire big man coach?

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    Define "accomplished". Miles had accomplished alienating two franchises and pissing off two coaches before he was exiled to Portland. Until that first half season in Portand, in a contract year playing for an owner with deep pockets, he'd never put up a PER => 15.0 (average NBA player). Sure, he played big minutes on some crappy teams, but his performance actually declined when he was traded from the Clippers to the Cavs. He never played on a team good enough to make the play-offs.

    Batum has been, until this season, primarily a starter on a team that has made the play-offs every year he's been here and has averaged 51 wins. He doesn't cause problems with his coaches or teamates. You're right. He's no Darius Miles.


    Gerald Wallace and Nicolas Batum are not borderline starters. They are both above average starters who also happen to play excellent defense.

    Should we resign both of them? It depends on how much it would cost and what other options are available. I'd be reluctant to give Wallace big dollar, long term contract give his age, injury history and style of play. Batum is still young and improving. I'd be much more willing to roll the dice on him and lock him up long term. What looks to be overpaying now could look like a real bargain in two or three years.

    BNM
     
  15. blue32

    blue32 Who wants a mustache ride?

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    Amen. I am tired of hearing the word "potential" as well. The entire McMillian era has been about "potential", w/only 2 real players actually displaying anything worth "Must have". Everyone else is just garbage in comparison. Now don't get me wrong, Batum is good, but not worth "panic-mode, must buy now".
     
  16. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    Bingo. McMillan is unable to bring out the potential that we pay for but never get. McMillan costs this team millions and millions of unrealized dollars.
     
  17. PapaG

    PapaG Banned User BANNED

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    Afflalo had a PER of 13.6 last year and a DRTG of 111, which is horrible for a supposed "stopper".

    Denver completely overpaid for him, and that could actually harm the Blazers, because Nic's agent can just point to that contract as a measuring stick.
     
  18. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    Interesting. I hadn't looked at his stats, but I just remember the few times I watched him that he looked impressive and I know he was lights out from deep ... (you did forget to mention that his ORTG was 123 and he was almost a 50-40-90 guy however).
     
  19. MickZagger

    MickZagger Well-Known Member

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    Is there anywhere I can find a list of all the 50-40-90 guys?
     
  20. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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