<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Jul 17 2006, 11:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>dude, im not saying that shaq is better than Dwyane but that doesnt make him the leader of the team. And how do you know that Dwyane is more vocal? Are you in the huddles? And of course Wade is the playmaker BECAUSE HE HAS THE BALL BECAUSE HE IS A GUARD. Shaq is a smart guy, dont you think he knows that Dwyane can do whatever he wants with the ball? So dont you think its a smart thing that he passes the ball back out? I just dont see how this has to do ANYTHING with him being a leader.You obviously dont play basketball, but if you did, the best player on the team is not always the leader.</div>You don't have to be in huddles to see players lips moving telling others a play. What does it matter that Wade is a guard? LeBron is a forward and he has the ball everytime and is basically the point guard of the team. You obviously know nothing about the Heat to say Wade isn't the leader, I'll even post an article to end it.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Dwyane Wade: Yeah, like I said, when he called me I thought he was crazy at first. He just called me and went over the things we went over earlier when me and Zo was together, and that was to come out and be the player I've been all year, don't worry about any criticism that I heard or that anybody said about me and just come out and play. He said it was going to be a dogfight from the beginning to the end, and I'm the leader of the team so go out and lead the team. Like I said, any time he calls me and gives me confidence to go out there and take over, I don't want to let him down. I go out there and try to do it.</div>Do you need to post the entire article also?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Jul 17 2006, 11:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>dude, im not saying that shaq is better than Dwyane but that doesnt make him the leader of the team. And how do you know that Dwyane is more vocal? Are you in the huddles? And of course Wade is the playmaker BECAUSE HE HAS THE BALL BECAUSE HE IS A GUARD. Shaq is a smart guy, dont you think he knows that Dwyane can do whatever he wants with the ball? So dont you think its a smart thing that he passes the ball back out? I just dont see how this has to do ANYTHING with him being a leader.You obviously dont play basketball, but if you did, the best player on the team is not always the leader.</div>You can see it on the court, yelling at teammates, helping them along, etc...Wade is a fantastic playmaker. yes, he is a guard. That doesn't always mean you're a playmaker. Hell, LeBron and T-Mac, both taller than Pierce and play SF are playmakers, but Pierce isn't. It's an attribute Wade has over Pierce.Wade TOOK OVER in the finals. He took over against Detroit 2 years in a row. With Shaq out for the Washington series last year Wade had like 35PPG and helped sweep the Wizards. He did it in his rookie season. He may not be the locker room leader, but he is the floor leader and general and also leader by example. Pierce doesn't have that kind of leadership skills.That right there just proves the point that Shaq isn't a leader. He was the floor general in LA and demanded respect, but the other role players like Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, etc... were the leaders. If Shaq was the leade rof the LA team than you can easily blame him for his collapsed relationship with Kobe.
vince played sf when before morris came and http://nbadraft.net/profiles/morrispeterson.htm u ***hole now hes a 2 but tmac was there 2 vince was there three there both swingman and play both spots
I'm a Raptor fan buddy. Mo Pete played SF, well Vince played the two. I know more about this then you..
What is your definition of playmaker? In my opinion, Paul Pierce is one of the best playmakers in the league. He has the ability to get to the rim and to the foul line at will. He can hurt you from anywhere on the court.Dwyane Wade is not the number one leader on the Miami Heat. He is the best player, but he is not the leader. Shaquille O'Neal is the leader of that clubhouse. He has the experience and rap sheet to demand attention. When Shaq speaks, everyone listens. Everyone loves Shaq because he is a great guy and a great leader. It makes Wade's job a lot easier to have a guy like that in the locker room.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr Wolf @ Jul 18 2006, 02:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>What is your definition of playmaker? In my opinion, Paul Pierce is one of the best playmakers in the league. He has the ability to get to the rim and to the foul line at will. He can hurt you from anywhere on the court.Dwyane Wade is not the number one leader on the Miami Heat. He is the best player, but he is not the leader. Shaquille O'Neal is the leader of that clubhouse. He has the experience and rap sheet to demand attention. When Shaq speaks, everyone listens. Everyone loves Shaq because he is a great guy and a great leader. It makes Wade's job a lot easier to have a guy like that in the locker room.</div>My definition of playmaker, is well, making plays for your team. Breaking down defense, scoring, passing when need be, setting up plays, etc... I feel Pierce is a great scorer, but not much else. Wade does the scoring thing just as well, but can get hotter when need be, and also do the other offensive things.Shaq isn't a great leader. Great guy? Sure. Great leader? No. He puts his ego before everything else, which is why his ego mixed with Kobe's ego didn't work in LA. Luckily Wade doesn't have that kind of ego, so their relationship is solid. If anyone outside of Wade is a leader on the Heat, it is Zo. He gives them the spark and flare they always need, he is full of energy. He also sticks up for teammates and always cheering them on the bench while Shaq just sits their emotion-less.
ok, how many center playmakers are their in the league u retards? Does shaq play the same position as Lebron James and Tracy McGrady? I dont think so. That is an awful comparison. Shaq is a VETERAN. Dwyane has been in the league for 3 years and you are calling him the leader of the team? And what does an article prove? If he is such a "outright leader", why do you have to show me an article. And when you see a guard, who has the ball in his hands alot of the time, yelling, he is telling the guys what to do. Do you think it would make much sense for Shaq to be calling the plays while Dwayne has the ball? You obviously dont know much about anything if you think Dwyane is the leader of the heat.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Jul 18 2006, 02:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>ok, how many center playmakers are their in the league u retards? Does shaq play the same position as Lebron James and Tracy McGrady? I dont think so. That is an awful comparison. Shaq is a VETERAN. Dwyane has been in the league for 3 years and you are calling him the leader of the team? And what does an article prove? If he is such a "outright leader", why do you have to show me an article. And when you see a guard, who has the ball in his hands alot of the time, yelling, he is telling the guys what to do. Do you think it would make much sense for Shaq to be calling the plays while Dwayne has the ball? You obviously dont know much about anything if you think Dwyane is the leader of the heat.</div>Shaq being a veteran automatically makes him a leader? LeBron has been in the league for 3 years and is it not obvious enough he is the leader? Is Carmelo not the leader of the Nuggets? Thought so. What does an article prove? That your completely wrong is what it proves, even Shaq himself has said Wade is the MVP of the team.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>''He's the best player ever,'' Shaquille O'Neal said. ``I knew the first time I saw him he was something special.''</div> Reported by the Miami Herald.If Shaq is any type of leader it's emotionally and nothing else. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>You obviously dont know much about anything if you think Dwyane is the leader of the heat.</div>When you back up your points with pure opinions you know your not doing to well. It's comments like these that make me question your knowledge. You seem to think you know more of the Heat then someone who watches them every day.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr Wolf @ Jul 18 2006, 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Do you know what leader even means, Heatfan?</div>You cant value of how good of a leader someone is. Theres no concrete stat that can quantify it either.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (anypoint @ Jul 18 2006, 10:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You cant value of how good of a leader someone is. Theres no concrete stat that can quantify it either.</div>There is no statistic for it, no, but I get the impression that Heatfan thinks that being the best player means you are the leader of the team. That is not always the case. Dwyane Wade is the best player on the Miami Heat, but Shaquille O'Neal is the leader of that team. Vince Carter is the best player on the New Jersey Nets but Jason Kidd is the leader of that team. Ron Artest is the best player on the Sacramento Kings but Mike Bibby is the leader of that team.Wade will become a very good leader as he gets older and when Shaquille retires or leaves. However, at this moment the leader of that locker room is Shaquille O'Neal. It's not a knock on Dwyane Wade at all.
Look at all the players you listed, Kidd, Bibby who are both guards. Wade is a guard and the vocal leader of the team in games. He is the one you give the ball to when it's clutch time and comes up big. Wade says he is the leader, Shaq says it, what other proof do you need that he is the leader? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>a person who rules or guides or inspires others</div> Off Dictionary.com, in game 5-6 did Wade not lead by example? Did it not look like he inspired everyone else to turn up there game and play better?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (theaftermath770 @ Jul 18 2006, 12:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>vince played sf when before morris came and http://nbadraft.net/profiles/morrispeterson.htm u ***hole now hes a 2 but tmac was there 2 vince was there three there both swingman and play both spots</div>Are you stupid or something? Mo Pete played SF Vince played the 2. Even if Vince came played the 2 before Mo Pete came Vince played the 2 for most of his career.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Jul 18 2006, 01:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Look at all the players you listed, Kidd, Bibby who are both guards. Wade is a guard and the vocal leader of the team in games. He is the one you give the ball to when it's clutch time and comes up big. Wade says he is the leader, Shaq says it, what other proof do you need that he is the leader?</div>I saw your quote where Shaq says he is the best player on the team. I never saw him say Wade is the leader of the team.You want big men who are leaders? Kevin Garnett. Tim Duncan. Shaquille O'Neal. PJ Brown. Just to name a few off the top of my head. You don't have to be the best player or ar guard to be the leader. Dwyane Wade can lead but that doesn't mean he is the leader. Shaquille O'Neal is the big man on campus with all the rings and experience. Shaq's leadership didn't clash with Kobe Bryant, their personalties did. Michael Jordan is known as a great leader but he punched out Steve Kerr in practice before. That stuff doesn't matter. Shaquille O'Neal is the guy who can motivate that locker room the best. Wade carried them in the Finals but you just aren't getting it through your skull that it doesn't mean he is the leader.Your man-love for Wade is so much that you are willing to degrade anyone on your team to make him look good. The guy is a hell of a player but Shaquille O'Neal is the leader of the locker room. He has been the leader everyone where he goes.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr Wolf @ Jul 18 2006, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I saw your quote where Shaq says he is the best player on the team. I never saw him say Wade is the leader of the team.You want big men who are leaders? Kevin Garnett. Tim Duncan. Shaquille O'Neal. PJ Brown. Just to name a few off the top of my head. You don't have to be the best player or ar guard to be the leader. Dwyane Wade can lead but that doesn't mean he is the leader. Shaquille O'Neal is the big man on campus with all the rings and experience. Shaq's leadership didn't clash with Kobe Bryant, their personalties did. Michael Jordan is known as a great leader but he punched out Steve Kerr in practice before. That stuff doesn't matter. Shaquille O'Neal is the guy who can motivate that locker room the best. Wade carried them in the Finals but you just aren't getting it through your skull that it doesn't mean he is the leader.Your man-love for Wade is so much that you are willing to degrade anyone on your team to make him look good. The guy is a hell of a player but Shaquille O'Neal is the leader of the locker room. He has been the leader everyone where he goes.</div>The fact you said Tim Duncan already made me lose all credibility on your post. Pop has STATED in conferences that Parker IS the leader of that team while Duncan is the "heart and soul". You seem to think all veteran players are leaders which is totally wrong. You are the one that doesn't get it through your skull, Wade says he is the leader, Shaq has said it himself several times on ESPN and you just totally keep denying it and stating your opinion. If you still think Parker is the leader of that Spurs team then this debate is over.In case you want to deny the fact Pop says Parker is the leader: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>"Tony was just stupendous as a leader," Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said.</div>Not to mention he has said it in several press conferences.
Tim Duncan is the leader of the San Antoino Spurs. Give me the context of that quote that Popovich says. Parker might have been the leader in that game, but Duncan is a great leader despite him being quiet.There is no doubt in my mind that Tim Duncan is the leader of the Spurs team.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Duncan, in his press conference, pondered whether taking so much responsibility as leader of the Spurs drives his game, or weighs it down."I think," he said, "I can make an argument for a little bit of both."</div>There is a quote straight from Duncan's mouth. Here is another one.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>"I have to be a leader -- I am the leader of this team," Duncan said yesterday, seemingly trying to remind himself through verbal repetition."It starts with me and I understand that."</div>That is pretty straight forward, no?Here is another one from your boy, Tony Parker, who you say is the leader of the Spurs.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>"I think when we saw Timmy playing like that, it gave us extra energy," Tony Parker said, crediting his big man for the win. "And you follow your leader. Timmy is the leader of our team, and he just carried us tonight and that's why he deserved the MVP because he carried us for the whole season."</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Jul 18 2006, 01:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Shaq being a veteran automatically makes him a leader? LeBron has been in the league for 3 years and is it not obvious enough he is the leader? Is Carmelo not the leader of the Nuggets? Thought so. What does an article prove? That your completely wrong is what it proves, even Shaq himself has said Wade is the MVP of the team. Reported by the Miami Herald.If Shaq is any type of leader it's emotionally and nothing else. When you back up your points with pure opinions you know your not doing to well. It's comments like these that make me question your knowledge. You seem to think you know more of the Heat then someone who watches them every day.</div>I honestly dont care that you know more about the heat than me. I play basketball ALOT more than you, and I KNOW ALOT more about basketball than you whether you want to admit it or not. The funny thing about your arguement is that you say the same thing everytime. That Dwyane Wade is better than Shaq. And if you read my posts thuroughly, you would know that I am not disagreeing with you. But if you knew ANYTHING about basketball at all, you would know that the leader of team doesnt always have to be the best player. Who on the cavaliers would be a leader besides Lebron James? None of them compare to a teammate like Shaq does to Dwyane Wade. Dwyane is playing with a legend and he hasnt even retired yet. He is the guy on the team that everybody looks up to and i come to this conclusion because he has won 4 championship rings, and MVP, and 3 Championship MVP's. The leader of the team is somebody that players go to when they need help, or somebody that they take advice from. Or, the emotional leader on the team like you mentioned earlier. I remember a quote that Dwyane said in the playoffs. It went something like this....I saw Shaq walk in to the lockeroom today and by his body langauge, I knew that he was going to great and that we were going to win. Thats not exact obviously but that is what he was saying.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Jul 18 2006, 02:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The fact you said Tim Duncan already made me lose all credibility on your post. Pop has STATED in conferences that Parker IS the leader of that team while Duncan is the "heart and soul". You seem to think all veteran players are leaders which is totally wrong. You are the one that doesn't get it through your skull, Wade says he is the leader, Shaq has said it himself several times on ESPN and you just totally keep denying it and stating your opinion. If you still think Parker is the leader of that Spurs team then this debate is over.In case you want to deny the fact Pop says Parker is the leader: Not to mention he has said it in several press conferences.</div>This just shows me even more how you have no idea what you are talking about. Tim Duncan is obviously the leader of the San Antonio Spurs. I dont see how you can that Tony Parker is. Its the same kind of situation as the Miami Heat, except Tim Duncan is still better than Tony Parker. Tim is a VETERAN that has been in the league for about ten years. He has experience and with experience comes wisdom. I watched the spurs play over 60 games this year so i dont see how you can say Tim Duncan isnt vocal because he is. He talks to players in huddles and you can see this because it shows it. You also see him pull apart Tony Parker and see him talk to him and pat him on the head. Those are the kinds of things that leaders do.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr Wolf @ Jul 18 2006, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Tim Duncan is the leader of the San Antoino Spurs. Give me the context of that quote that Popovich says. Parker might have been the leader in that game, but Duncan is a great leader despite him being quiet.There is no doubt in my mind that Tim Duncan is the leader of the Spurs team.There is a quote straight from Duncan's mouth. Here is another one.That is pretty straight forward, no?Here is another one from your boy, Tony Parker, who you say is the leader of the Spurs.</div>Duncan started the season at 60% and ended around 75%, had Parker NOT played the way he did they wouldn't have won nearly as many games. I quote Pop talking to Tony here<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>You have to pick up the offensive game and carry this team while TD is hurting.</div>Not to mention the press conferences after every playoff game. Who carried the team in the playoffs? Parker. When Duncan started to play well against the Mavs what happened? They lost. I'll try to find a article that states it all and you can go ahead and ask any die-hard Spurs fan who keeps up with the team who is the leader.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Jul 18 2006, 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I honestly dont care that you know more about the heat than me. I play basketball ALOT more than you, and I KNOW ALOT more about basketball than you whether you want to admit it or not. The funny thing about your arguement is that you say the same thing everytime. That Dwyane Wade is better than Shaq. And if you read my posts thuroughly, you would know that I am not disagreeing with you. But if you knew ANYTHING about basketball at all, you would know that the leader of team doesnt always have to be the best player. Who on the cavaliers would be a leader besides Lebron James? None of them compare to a teammate like Shaq does to Dwyane Wade. Dwyane is playing with a legend and he hasnt even retired yet. He is the guy on the team that everybody looks up to and i come to this conclusion because he has won 4 championship rings, and MVP, and 3 Championship MVP's. The leader of the team is somebody that players go to when they need help, or somebody that they take advice from. Or, the emotional leader on the team like you mentioned earlier. I remember a quote that Dwyane said in the playoffs. It went something like this....I saw Shaq walk in to the lockeroom today and by his body langauge, I knew that he was going to great and that we were going to win. Thats not exact obviously but that is what he was saying.This just shows me even more how you have no idea what you are talking about. Tim Duncan is obviously the leader of the San Antonio Spurs. I dont see how you can that Tony Parker is. Its the same kind of situation as the Miami Heat, except Tim Duncan is still better than Tony Parker. Tim is a VETERAN that has been in the league for about ten years. He has experience and with experience comes wisdom. I watched the spurs play over 60 games this year so i dont see how you can say Tim Duncan isnt vocal because he is. He talks to players in huddles and you can see this because it shows it. You also see him pull apart Tony Parker and see him talk to him and pat him on the head. Those are the kinds of things that leaders do.</div>Besides the fact that Wade himself and Shaq both say he is the leader you still deny it? Who is the floor leader of the team? Who is the most vocal on that team? The only reason people still listen to Shaq is because he has earned his respect from playing, otherwise all the attention would go to Wade. I understand not always the best player is the leader but what proof do you have Shaq is? Wade leads by example, notice how when he is playing his best so are the rest of the players. Shaq doesn't inspire the team anymore. He is simply more respected then Wade because he has been playing much longer but he isn't the leader anymore. Last year he was. The year before that Eddie Jones was the leader of the regular season BUT this season that went to Wade.Had Tony not played as well as he did the Spurs wouldn't have been the #1 seed or anywhere near it, Duncan himself knew it was up to Tony to play well while Duncan was hurting.
